There are authors of popular books on meditation and Buddhism that blend teachings from different types of Buddhism, theories from psychology, personal views of their teachers, and their own personal views.
Does it matter to you where an idea comes from?
Do you want helpful spiritual/psychological ideas only to come from Buddhism or a paritcular type of Buddhism?
Do you want helpful spiritual/psychological ideas to come from the suttas directly?
Is it enough for you that the idea is helpful to you and increases your happiness?
Do you care only in knowing where it comes from so you know what you are talking about?
If it helps you, do you care where it comes from?
Re: If it helps you, do you care where it comes from?
Interesting question. I think that attitudes to this question revolve around whether, when examining possible suggestions, one look for consistency with the suttas, or for confirmation from the suttas (the latter being a much stronger requirement).
Mike
Mike
Re: If it helps you, do you care where it comes from?
Yes, because if I find something helpful, I feel indebted to the person whom I have heard that idea from. And I wish to repay the debt somehow.soapy3 wrote:Does it matter to you where an idea comes from?
Do you care only in knowing where it comes from so you know what you are talking about?
That never occured to me, but for all practical intents and purposes, it is more feasible, more economical to have just one big, rich source to which to refer to, as opposed to having to hop around all the time.Do you want helpful spiritual/psychological ideas only to come from Buddhism or a paritcular type of Buddhism?
Existing scriptures do have a certain stability to them which gives them a sense of relevance and authority that a single living person usually doesn't have.Do you want helpful spiritual/psychological ideas to come from the suttas directly?
To answer yes to that question strikes me as rather solipsistic and ungrateful.Is it enough for you that the idea is helpful to you and increases your happiness?
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
Re: If it helps you, do you care where it comes from?
One important consideration is what the goal is when using an idea. An idea that comes from a source that understands a goal and the way to achieve that goal is more likely to be effective in achieving that goal than an idea that comes from a source which lacks such understanding. It's important to understand the source of ideas so that time is not wasted investigating false ideas from sources that misunderstand the issue. The educational system is built around such a concept of providing ideas on a given subject from sources that have demonstrated some degree of proficiency in that subject.soapy3 wrote: Does it matter to you where an idea comes from?
When seeking ideas about physics it's most useful to consider ideas that come from experienced physicists. When seeking ideas about happiness it's most useful to consider ideas that come from individuals that have personally attained that degree of happiness and understand the causes of that happiness. When seeking ideas about Nibbana it's most useful to consider ideas that come from individuals who have attained Nibbana and understand the path that leads there.
Re: If it helps you, do you care where it comes from?
If it fits with what i know to be true from my expericence, makes sense and leads to good results, i dont care where it comes from.
Ok, whats the sutta qoute?
Ok, whats the sutta qoute?
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig
Re: If it helps you, do you care where it comes from?
The one about "if it leads to good results it's dhamma"?m0rl0ck wrote:If it fits with what i know to be true from my expericence, makes sense and leads to good results, i dont care where it comes from.
Ok, whats the sutta qoute?
I don't know but I do know it exists.
Kim
Re: If it helps you, do you care where it comes from?
AN 8.53?Kim OHara wrote:The one about "if it leads to good results it's dhamma"?m0rl0ck wrote:If it fits with what i know to be true from my expericence, makes sense and leads to good results, i dont care where it comes from.
Ok, whats the sutta qoute?
I don't know but I do know it exists.
Kim
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Re: If it helps you, do you care where it comes from?
Yes When first hearing an idea, I would like to know where it's coming from to know whether or not it's worth pursuing to begin with. If it comes from a person who talks wise, but acts foolishly, this matters because it shows that the person does not know what they are talking about. And it's better to listen to people who do know what they are talking about.soapy3 wrote: Does it matter to you where an idea comes from?
Re: If it helps you, do you care where it comes from?
There are four major type of happiness with many sub divisions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zAQU8MEHnM
So depend on your goal and intelligence, you have to decide what true happiness means.
If you need the very basic happiness by material things you can listen to a motivational speaker or a financial advisor etc.
If you need the highest happiness “Nirvana” (according to Buddha) you have to be a Buddhist.
I have chosen Theravada as it gives me a clear path to Nirvana.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zAQU8MEHnM
So depend on your goal and intelligence, you have to decide what true happiness means.
If you need the very basic happiness by material things you can listen to a motivational speaker or a financial advisor etc.
If you need the highest happiness “Nirvana” (according to Buddha) you have to be a Buddhist.
I have chosen Theravada as it gives me a clear path to Nirvana.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: If it helps you, do you care where it comes from?
seeker242 wrote:Yes When first hearing an idea, I would like to know where it's coming from to know whether or not it's worth pursuing to begin with. If it comes from a person who talks wise, but acts foolishly, this matters because it shows that the person does not know what they are talking about. And it's better to listen to people who do know what they are talking about.soapy3 wrote: Does it matter to you where an idea comes from?
I agree. This is absolutely true and very important.
On the other hand, I do accept good ideas from all traditions - from Theravada to Mahayana to Christianity to academic philosophy.
Kim
Re: If it helps you, do you care where it comes from?
To an extent I don't care - I am still working my way through Pema Chodron's books, despite being perfectly convinced that Theravada is the best fit for me, because I find them helpful.
However I do think some caution is needed. On the one hand, if secular meditation stuff helps people, then great, but I do think it is a journey into the mind that needs to be handled with care.
Edit to add: for clarity, I mean that the habit of divorcing meditation from its religious roots is maybe being done a little carelessly. Not necessarily by the original proponents of it, but by the time it has filtered down to a poorly-trained therapist on the ground . . .
However I do think some caution is needed. On the one hand, if secular meditation stuff helps people, then great, but I do think it is a journey into the mind that needs to be handled with care.
Edit to add: for clarity, I mean that the habit of divorcing meditation from its religious roots is maybe being done a little carelessly. Not necessarily by the original proponents of it, but by the time it has filtered down to a poorly-trained therapist on the ground . . .
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Re: If it helps you, do you care where it comes from?
Not really, providing that it makes sense and works. Despite an extensive search I haven't found anything that makes more sense or works better than Buddhism.soapy3 wrote: Does it matter to you where an idea comes from?
Buddha save me from new-agers!
Re: If it helps you, do you care where it comes from?
Maybe we should have a discussion about how to distinguish "it helps" from "I like it".
Right effort and doubt have an interesting interplay here; if someone wants to say they are helped by e.g. a wrong view (e.g. that there is a Creator deity), the response calls for a light touch with these points of Dhamma.
Right effort and doubt have an interesting interplay here; if someone wants to say they are helped by e.g. a wrong view (e.g. that there is a Creator deity), the response calls for a light touch with these points of Dhamma.
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]