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How can arahant experience no sloth and torpor? - Dhamma Wheel

How can arahant experience no sloth and torpor?

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Sati1
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How can arahant experience no sloth and torpor?

Postby Sati1 » Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:54 am

Hello,

I recently learned that the arahant can no longer experience sloth and torpor. Does this mean that he/she will not get tired with insufficient sleep? From my own experience I know that when I don't sleep enough at night, sloth and torpor usually arise in the afternoon, making it difficult to remain mindful and concentrate. Would an arahant be able to be mindful and concentrate even with very little sleep, and wouldn't that mean that the basic need for sleep is overriden with enlightenment?

Thank you,
Sati1
London, UK

----
"I do not perceive even one other thing, o monks, that when developed and cultivated entails such great happiness as the mind" (AN 1.10, transl. Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi)
"So this spiritual life, monks, does not have gain, honor, and renown for its benefit, or the attainment of moral discipline for its benefit, or the attainment of concentration for its benefit, or knowledge and vision for its benefit. But it is this unshakable liberation of mind that is the goal of this spiritual life, its heartwood, and its end," (MN 29, transl. Ven Bhikkhu Bodhi)

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Zom
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Re: How can arahant experience no sloth and torpor?

Postby Zom » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:47 am

No. He can be tired, he does have bodily fatigue. Sloth/torpor are purely mental things which, of course, can have an effect on the body.

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Sati1
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Re: How can arahant experience no sloth and torpor?

Postby Sati1 » Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:20 pm

Would his mental faculties, including the capacity to meditate and be mindful, then not be affected by the fatigue?

Thank you.
Sati1
London, UK

----
"I do not perceive even one other thing, o monks, that when developed and cultivated entails such great happiness as the mind" (AN 1.10, transl. Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi)
"So this spiritual life, monks, does not have gain, honor, and renown for its benefit, or the attainment of moral discipline for its benefit, or the attainment of concentration for its benefit, or knowledge and vision for its benefit. But it is this unshakable liberation of mind that is the goal of this spiritual life, its heartwood, and its end," (MN 29, transl. Ven Bhikkhu Bodhi)

culaavuso
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Re: How can arahant experience no sloth and torpor?

Postby culaavuso » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:26 pm



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Sati1
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Re: How can arahant experience no sloth and torpor?

Postby Sati1 » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:34 pm

Fascinating. Thank you very much for the reference, Culaavuso. This clarifies my question. Thus, against my assumption, fatigue can be dislodged from sloth&torpor. Incredible indeed.
Sati1
London, UK

----
"I do not perceive even one other thing, o monks, that when developed and cultivated entails such great happiness as the mind" (AN 1.10, transl. Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi)
"So this spiritual life, monks, does not have gain, honor, and renown for its benefit, or the attainment of moral discipline for its benefit, or the attainment of concentration for its benefit, or knowledge and vision for its benefit. But it is this unshakable liberation of mind that is the goal of this spiritual life, its heartwood, and its end," (MN 29, transl. Ven Bhikkhu Bodhi)

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Mkoll
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Re: How can arahant experience no sloth and torpor?

Postby Mkoll » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:35 pm

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Sati1
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Re: How can arahant experience no sloth and torpor?

Postby Sati1 » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:01 pm

Interesting. I have definitely noticed that meditation provides more energy during he day and reduces the need for sleep. Mkoll, I wonder if the 4th jhana phenomenon you describe was the one used by the contemprary "Buddha boy" for his 10-month-long meditation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_Bahadur_Bomjon

:anjali:
Sati1
London, UK

----
"I do not perceive even one other thing, o monks, that when developed and cultivated entails such great happiness as the mind" (AN 1.10, transl. Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi)
"So this spiritual life, monks, does not have gain, honor, and renown for its benefit, or the attainment of moral discipline for its benefit, or the attainment of concentration for its benefit, or knowledge and vision for its benefit. But it is this unshakable liberation of mind that is the goal of this spiritual life, its heartwood, and its end," (MN 29, transl. Ven Bhikkhu Bodhi)

suttametta
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Re: How can arahant experience no sloth and torpor?

Postby suttametta » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:56 pm


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Mkoll
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Re: How can arahant experience no sloth and torpor?

Postby Mkoll » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:39 pm

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

Ananda26
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Re: How can arahant experience no sloth and torpor?

Postby Ananda26 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:22 pm


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Sati1
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Re: How can arahant experience no sloth and torpor?

Postby Sati1 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:02 pm

Hi Ananda26,

Thank you, this quote is very helpful.
Sati1
London, UK

----
"I do not perceive even one other thing, o monks, that when developed and cultivated entails such great happiness as the mind" (AN 1.10, transl. Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi)
"So this spiritual life, monks, does not have gain, honor, and renown for its benefit, or the attainment of moral discipline for its benefit, or the attainment of concentration for its benefit, or knowledge and vision for its benefit. But it is this unshakable liberation of mind that is the goal of this spiritual life, its heartwood, and its end," (MN 29, transl. Ven Bhikkhu Bodhi)


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