TheDhamma wrote:The recent movie, Knowing followed the idea that possibly everything is pre-determined. It was pretty good and entertaining and some good discussions on determinism and free will.
I think like you do, that not everything is pre-determined. Certainly many people are pretty predictable, such as those who make little progress and conversely, some like the Bodhisatta, who have made much merit. For those, their futures are probably easy to see if you are an arahant or sammasambuddha. But for those in the middle, I think there is some mix where there can be some choice and volition.
Stefan wrote:Any thoughts?
clw_uk wrote:I brought this up recently, mawkish has something interesting to say, that quantum mechanics does away with ideas of determinism or predeterminism (he could probably expand more)
If everything were pre-determined, would the Buddha have bothered teaching for 45 years and finished with "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
Pre-determination renders any spiritual pursuit meaningless.
But, Udāyi, let be the past, let be the future, I shall set you forth the Teaching: When there is this this is, with arising of this this arises; when there is not this this is not, with cessation of this this ceases. (Majjhima VIII,9 <M.II,32>)
Stefan wrote:There is the prediction of Dipankara Buddha that Gautama (then Sumedha) would become a Buddha, and even predicted Gautama's chief diciples. There is the prediction of Kondanna when Gotama was a baby that he would become an Enlightened person rather than a Cakkavattin. There is the prediction about Metteyya. There is the prediction that King Ajjatasattu, after his stay in hell would become a pacekkabuddha, same for Devadatta.
So does this mean that the future is predetermined/predictable/knowable? Or just some of it?
Yet, If I look back at my own life, I can see that I could have made other choices and decisions than the ones I did, which would have led to totally different outcomes. So this makes me a strong believer in that the future cannot possibly be predictable, and that it is not predetermined.
chownah wrote:From a personal point of view I think that it is not possible to know absolutely if the future is predetermined or not. I can not imagine any method or test which could conclusively determine the answer....if anyone knows of one please post it...
Individual wrote:chownah wrote:From a personal point of view I think that it is not possible to know absolutely if the future is predetermined or not. I can not imagine any method or test which could conclusively determine the answer....if anyone knows of one please post it...
Highly advanced physics in which the origins of universes (the origin of our space-time) is more clearly understood (that is, discovering the multiverse, delineating several timelines, creating a neutral bubble outside our space-time so as to allow scientists to study the ebb and flow of space-time objectively, by being independent of it). It's speculative and maybe just fantasy, but who knows?
The probabilism of quantum mechanics are said to have already debunked pure determinism.