Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Aloka
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by Aloka »

tiltbillings wrote: The video creeped me out a bit
Woo, me too!

It also reminded me of conversations with friends when high on wacky baccy, back in my student days at Uni.(Not something I do now)

.
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Kasina
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by Kasina »

Linda Clair wrote:“Enlightenment is not a state of mind. It is the realisation of love…”
... Oy vey... :roll:
"This world completely lacks essence;
It trembles in all directions.
I longed to find myself a place
Unscathed — but I could not see it."


Sn 4.15 PTS: Sn 935-951 "Attadanda Sutta: Arming Oneself"

"You will be required to do wrong no matter where you go... This is the curse at work, the curse that feeds on all life..."

Wilbur Mercer in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
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DNS
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by DNS »

From the first video, first line:
Linda Clair wrote:What is the meaning of life? Why are we here? The meaning of life is to discover why we are here.
Circular reasoning fallacy.
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Viscid
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by Viscid »

Had the opportunity to briefly go through her videos, and they're not as creepy as I expected. The first one is because she has those long pauses..

I've also noticed this very thread is the third search result (at least for me) when Googling 'Linda Clair.' Any prospective student looking into her is probably going to read this thread over.. so if we're going to criticize her, I think she deserves better than the nit-picking we're currently providing. I'm not even sure what business it is of ours when she doesn't claim to be Theravadin or even to teach Buddhism. She should be free to teach however and whatever she wants for whatever cost, as long as she isn't exploiting anyone or causing harm.

Regardless,

I think much of what we find irksome is
A) her guru-like authority which she founds upon a tenuous enlightenment and
B) the vacuousness (and derivativeness-- it looks like she read a lot of Adyashanti) of her teaching and perhaps
C) her suspiciously high prices which betray our expectations of enlightened selflessness

If anyone wants to elaborate, I think it's a worthwhile exercise.
Last edited by Viscid on Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"What holds attention determines action." - William James
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Kasina
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by Kasina »

Viscid wrote: C) her suspiciously high prices which betrays our expectations of enlightened selflessness
The prices themselves betray her claims of selflessness... What I mean to say is, if she really has transcended her ego, why would she need to be materially satisfied beyond basic needs? Further, does she have any other means of income? If this is her only means, that would only raise my suspicions ever more.

Perhaps she has some sort of attainment, or is at least very convinced she has... Though she's very clearly still caught up in egocentric desires.

If I were looking at her as a perspective student, even as a new ager (which I'm guilty of once being), I'd be very doubtful and probably look elsewhere. :shrug:

:anjali:
"This world completely lacks essence;
It trembles in all directions.
I longed to find myself a place
Unscathed — but I could not see it."


Sn 4.15 PTS: Sn 935-951 "Attadanda Sutta: Arming Oneself"

"You will be required to do wrong no matter where you go... This is the curse at work, the curse that feeds on all life..."

Wilbur Mercer in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
SamKR
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by SamKR »

I concur with you, Viscid.

There are numerous other neo-advaita type spiritual teachers who unhesitantly claim enlightenment (of their definitions) and charge monies for teaching or sell books. What intrigues me is that their experiences and realizations are very similar to each-other. I believe most of them are indeed "enlightened" to certain truths although their definition of final enlightenment is very different from that of the Buddha's Dhamma. Why only pick one person to criticize?
Kasina wrote:
Linda Clair wrote:“Enlightenment is not a state of mind. It is the realisation of love…”
... Oy vey... :roll:
Realization of the true and ultimate "love" is indeed an aspect of enlightenment in many nondual circles.
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Kasina
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by Kasina »

SamKR wrote:I concur with you, Viscid.

There are numerous other neo-advaita type spiritual teachers who unhesitantly claim enlightenment (of their definitions) and charge monies for teaching or sell books. What intrigues me is that their experiences and realizations are very similar to each-other. I believe most of them are indeed "enlightened" to certain truths although their definition of final enlightenment is very different from that of the Buddha's Dhamma. Why only pick one person to criticize?
You make a good point, but I'm sure other must have been criticized here before? If not, I'd be surprised.
SamKR wrote:
Kasina wrote:
Linda Clair wrote:“Enlightenment is not a state of mind. It is the realisation of love…”
... Oy vey... :roll:
Realization of the true and ultimate "love" is indeed an aspect of enlightenment in many nondual circles.
As someone who was a member of one such circle I am quite aware.
"This world completely lacks essence;
It trembles in all directions.
I longed to find myself a place
Unscathed — but I could not see it."


Sn 4.15 PTS: Sn 935-951 "Attadanda Sutta: Arming Oneself"

"You will be required to do wrong no matter where you go... This is the curse at work, the curse that feeds on all life..."

Wilbur Mercer in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
SamKR
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by SamKR »

manas wrote: there are quite a few 'western', lay teachers of Dhamma and meditation who, while embodying the principles of Dhamma to a greater or lesser extent, still however make no such claims of 'enlightenment'. For example, Joseph Goldstein, Jack Kornfield or Sharon Salzburg, just to name a few. One's own enlightenment doesn't need to be proclaimed; just proclaiming the Dhamma is sufficient.
I am not sure about other teachers but Joseph Goldstein has stated about his experience of realization of the unborn - which is a certain level of enlightenment (sotapanna, at least?).
Last edited by SamKR on Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kasina
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by Kasina »

Although, I should mention for the sake of posterity, that many of those claims are sort of more like settled beliefs. For instance, one may take the idea that everything is one, and regard it as a very deep effectual insight, and carry it with them as such. It really does change the way people behave and think, but it's genuinely different from insights we come across in Buddhism, as it takes the form of an assumption, not as a direct truth...

Some do claim to receive it as direct truth, but this is usually with the aid of psychedelic drugs, or sudden visions. I have experienced a sudden vision like this before, but at the same time, it may have been sleep paralysis. All of the experiences tend to be the same: Cryptic, pointing towards non-duality, and the importance of unconventional love. Oh, and also living for the sake of living.
"This world completely lacks essence;
It trembles in all directions.
I longed to find myself a place
Unscathed — but I could not see it."


Sn 4.15 PTS: Sn 935-951 "Attadanda Sutta: Arming Oneself"

"You will be required to do wrong no matter where you go... This is the curse at work, the curse that feeds on all life..."

Wilbur Mercer in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by tiltbillings »

SamKR wrote:
manas wrote: there are quite a few 'western', lay teachers of Dhamma and meditation who, while embodying the principles of Dhamma to a greater or lesser extent, still however make no such claims of 'enlightenment'. For example, Joseph Goldstein, Jack Kornfield or Sharon Salzburg, just to name a few. One's own enlightenment doesn't need to be proclaimed; just proclaiming the Dhamma is sufficient.
I am not sure about other teachers but Joseph Goldstein has stated about his experience of realization of the unborn - which is a certain level of enlightenment (sotapanna, at least?).
Source?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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tiltbillings
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by tiltbillings »

Viscid wrote: She should be free to teach however and whatever she wants for whatever cost, as long as she isn't exploiting anyone or causing harm.
Of course she is, and if someone wants warm fuzzy, fluffy bunny and expensive "enlightenment," she would probably be a good option.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
SamKR
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by SamKR »

tiltbillings wrote:
SamKR wrote:
manas wrote: there are quite a few 'western', lay teachers of Dhamma and meditation who, while embodying the principles of Dhamma to a greater or lesser extent, still however make no such claims of 'enlightenment'. For example, Joseph Goldstein, Jack Kornfield or Sharon Salzburg, just to name a few. One's own enlightenment doesn't need to be proclaimed; just proclaiming the Dhamma is sufficient.
I am not sure about other teachers but Joseph Goldstein has stated about his experience of realization of the unborn - which is a certain level of enlightenment (sotapanna, at least?).
Source?
There is a spiritual documentary titled "With One Voice" which is available in Netflix and Amazon prime. Watch from 8:50 to 10:00. He just briefly mentions it.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by tiltbillings »

SamKR wrote: There is a spiritual documentary titled "With One Voice" which is available in Netflix and Amazon prime. Watch from 8:50 to 10:00. He just briefly mentions it.
He talks about that experience at more length here: http://www.dharmaseed.org/teacher/96/talk/2335/

It is one of those spontaneous experiences that point to, that suggest, something very different, some further possibility.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by Kusala »

Viscid wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Unfair? I don't think so, not at a $100 AUD per hour.
I'm willing to bet she caters to wealthy individuals who can afford it. I ask this question genuinely: Does that make her a bad teacher? Do good teachers necessarily have to teach at low cost to accommodate as many people as possible, or are they allowed to be so selective?
'One should not go about making a business out of the Dhamma' (Ud.66) http://sdhammika.blogspot.com/2010/03/p ... hamma.html
"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

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"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by fivebells »

I was tutoring someone in Math recently, and making good money, then somehow it turned into tutoring about Buddhist meditation. I felt like I had to forgo charging him, once it became serious. I told him he's welcome to make donations, but haven't received any so far. :-)
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