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Do it yourself! - Dhamma Wheel

Do it yourself!

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
kryptos
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:01 pm

Do it yourself!

Postby kryptos » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:49 am

Friends in the Dhamma!

There were many independent renunciants in the ancient India, Gotama himself was one. Let's assume that someone wants to become an independent renunciant nowadays (not an ordained monk) to practice a very simple life based on Buddha-Dhamma, 10 precepts, meditation, mendicancy, seclusion in forests/parks/gardens, dwelling under trees or in ruins and taking shower in rivers or wherever.

Questions:

(1) Is it possible to practice in India or Nepal nowadays? Do modern citizens support independent renunciants? How are they seen by the society?
(2) How should one proceed in order to live like that?
(3) I think getting new visas would be a problem, wouldn't it?
(4) If that is definitely impossible, are there alternatives? :thinking:

User avatar
TheNoBSBuddhist
Posts: 1614
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:06 pm
Location: Loch Lomond, via the High AND Low road....

Re: Do it yourself!

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:48 am

Why do you think practice is any different in India/Nepal, than it is where you are right now?

Is it necessary for you to travel there?

I merely ask, because a person of my acquaintance has done such a thing in Italy....
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, may be why....

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Goofaholix
Posts: 2928
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Do it yourself!

Postby Goofaholix » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:58 am

I can just imagine the visa application, no job, no money, no return ticket, no travel insurance, then of course probably every 3 months you'd have to cross the border to renew your visa and who's going to pay for that. The locals probably do feed locals who choose this lifestyle but what would they make of a foreigner.

The question i'd as is why would you want to?

walkart
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:13 pm

Re: Do it yourself!

Postby walkart » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:52 am

Be carefull.
AN 10.99

kryptos
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:01 pm

Re: Do it yourself!

Postby kryptos » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:08 pm


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appicchato
Posts: 1603
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:47 am
Location: Bridge on the River Kwae

Re: Do it yourself!

Postby appicchato » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:16 pm


kryptos
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:01 pm

Re: Do it yourself!

Postby kryptos » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:52 pm

Anagarika Dharmapala seems to be a good source of inspiration.

"'Dharmapala' means 'protector of the dharma'. 'Anagarika' means "homeless one". It is a midway status between monk and layperson. As such, he took the eight precepts (refrain from killing, stealing, sexual activity, wrong speech, intoxicating drinks and drugs, eating after noon, entertainments and fashionable attire, and luxurious beds) for life. These eight precepts were commonly taken by Ceylonese laypeople on observance days.[3] But for a person to take them for life was highly unusual. Dharmapala was the first anagarika - that is, a celibate, full-time worker for Buddhism - in modern times. It seems that he took a vow of celibacy at the age of eight and remained faithful to it all his life. Although he wore a yellow robe, it was not of the traditional bhikkhu pattern, and he did not shave his head. He felt that the observance of all the vinaya rules would get in the way of his work, especially as he flew around the world. Neither the title nor the office became popular, but in this role, he "was the model for lay activism in modernist Buddhism."[4] He is considered a bodhisattva in Sri Lanka.[5]"

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anagarika_Dharmapala

SamKR
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:33 pm

Re: Do it yourself!

Postby SamKR » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:49 am


SarathW
Posts: 8014
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Do it yourself!

Postby SarathW » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:26 am

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

piano piano
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:52 pm
Location: Switzerland

Re: Do it yourself!

Postby piano piano » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:36 am

About the logistics of doing your thing in India and Nepal, there are the following considerations. You would travel to India on a tourist visa, which limits your stay for a maximum of 180 days for one entry (visa starts counting from first day of issue, not from first day of entering the country). If you happen to be a U.S. citizen, you can apply for a ten-year-visa which gives you the right to enter India for 20 times 180 day-stays in sequence, but you need to leave at the latest on each 180th day, for instance to Nepal, entering which costs you 25 US Dollars each time for 15 days stay, 40 for a month, or 100 for 3 months.

If you are not an American, you have to go the way of ordinary mortals, and apply for 6-months-visas for India each time you need to leave. Your best option in such circumstances is to stay in India for 6 months, then migrate to Nepal vor 150 days (max allowed stay in Nepal), then apply for India visa again, and stay in India again. Visas always cost money, though, and you cannot do without. Visa issuing changes from time to time. You might be asked to go to your home-country to apply for a 6-month-visa, and be given only 3 months.

Most Theravada Buddhist monks use money in India. India does not understand the tradition of Pindapat anymore. You won't get food from anyone, except if you educate them.

You could do your thing in Sri Lanka or Thailand, however, where that tradition is still strong. I don't see why you should search out places where the traditions are not accepted. Staunch monks are doing that in the hills of Sri Lanka, where they share the forest with wild elephants and other dangers. You could just get ordained by anyone, and then go your way. There are well-known Western monks who did not undergo a 5-year-nissaya. For the visa-situation in Sri Lanka you need some strong support, meaning good connections (places like Na Uyana are a good connection, but it can also be done thru other links to the Government).

kryptos
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:01 pm

Re: Do it yourself!

Postby kryptos » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:51 pm


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James the Giant
Posts: 792
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:41 am

Re: Do it yourself!

Postby James the Giant » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:54 pm

You don't need to go to asian countries to be a self-ordained mendicant, living alone and wandering for alms.
It is possible in the west, at least in Australia, New Zealand, and the UK.
When I was at a monastery in New Zealand, one of the monks decided to test if he could survive on just what the local people gave him, without relying on monastery food. He went on pindabat every day, walking to a nearby supermarket and shopping centre, and just standing quietly outside likely places. He got plenty of food, many subway sandwiches, pies, bread, and liters of soft drinks.
He only had to walk and wait for perhaps one hour, before getting more than enough for a whole day's food needs.
He did this every day for 4 months I believe, during the rains retreat.

In Australia I met a guy who was doing a similar mendicancy thing, except he didn't wear robes. He was a spiritual hippy backpacker type of guy, he never paid for food. Lived in parks, in the forest, and in friendly people's houses as a guest/housesitter/etc.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.

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Goofaholix
Posts: 2928
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Do it yourself!

Postby Goofaholix » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:05 pm


Zentruckdriver
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:00 pm

Re: Do it yourself!

Postby Zentruckdriver » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:46 pm

Hi Kryptos,
Maybe this site can help with some ideas http://becomenomad.com/
I know its not exactly what your intending to do but we still need to
maintain a legal aspect to prove our intentions are innocent.

I have not owned a property for years and use my Mums address for
documents and so on.

Usually when I tell people that im going traveling for a couple of years
they respond with negativity but I still go and have had many happy years
on the road.

The only other thing I can think of is becoming Stateless but I have
never researched it and do not know if its applicable.

Kind Regards Paul.
Dipping a toe in or pulling myself from a swamp...yeah that covers it for now.

kryptos
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:01 pm

Re: Do it yourself!

Postby kryptos » Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:03 am


User avatar
melancholy
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:40 pm

Re: Do it yourself!

Postby melancholy » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:41 pm

kryptos, are you looking for a lifestyle like ramana maharshi. i mean not the views, but the simple & free living?
Power can make things disappear, so does me :D

Then the Blessed One said to Ven. Ananda, "Now, if it occurs to any of you — 'The teaching has lost its authority; we are without a Teacher' — do not view it in that way. Whatever Dhamma & Vinaya I have pointed out & formulated for you, that will be your Teacher when I am gone.

-Dīgha Nikāya 16, Mahāparinibbāna Sutta
__________________________________

gO tO wORK, gET mARRIED, hAVE sOME kIDS;
wATCH yOUR tV, fOLLOW fASHION, aCT nORMAL;
pAY yOUR tAXES, pAY yOUR bILLS, oBEY tHE lAW;
aND rEPEAT aFTER mE: "i aM fREE."

kryptos
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:01 pm

Re: Do it yourself!

Postby kryptos » Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:05 am


User avatar
happylotus1
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: Do it yourself!

Postby happylotus1 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:01 am

1. It is possible although might be tougher to resist due to likely vicissitude. Nepal and India still have a large number of such renunciates.
2. First try to live life in ashrams or monasteries and observe their daily lifestyles with minimum requirements of life. You can move from one ashram or monasteries as guest to another for initial adjustments. You can be supported with very little money in that parts of the world with frugal expenditures.
3. Once you get visa and enter to the country and if you enter into the domain of renunciate there is little likelihood that you are checked for your visa. However it is always better to be within legal status. I am not aware of any special visa for renunciate in Nepal and India.
4. I think it is possible although with hardship from your part.

Kind regards,
A householder or householder's son, hearing the Dhamma, gains conviction in the Tathāgata and reflects: 'Household life is confining, a dusty path. The life gone forth is like the open air. It is not easy living at home to practice the holy life totally perfect, totally pure, like a polished shell. What if I were to shave off my hair & beard, put on the ochre robes, and go forth from the household life into homelessness?

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melancholy
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:40 pm

Re: Do it yourself!

Postby melancholy » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:03 pm

Power can make things disappear, so does me :D

Then the Blessed One said to Ven. Ananda, "Now, if it occurs to any of you — 'The teaching has lost its authority; we are without a Teacher' — do not view it in that way. Whatever Dhamma & Vinaya I have pointed out & formulated for you, that will be your Teacher when I am gone.

-Dīgha Nikāya 16, Mahāparinibbāna Sutta
__________________________________

gO tO wORK, gET mARRIED, hAVE sOME kIDS;
wATCH yOUR tV, fOLLOW fASHION, aCT nORMAL;
pAY yOUR tAXES, pAY yOUR bILLS, oBEY tHE lAW;
aND rEPEAT aFTER mE: "i aM fREE."


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