Freelance ExBuddhist wrote:To all of you who find it more convenient to confront me, rather than confronting precisely the issue stated in the title of this group's discussion...
I don't find it convenient at all. If you would enable your PM's, then those of us with broader questions about this campaign of yours can ask ON THEIR TERMS as opposed to yours ONLY. Or perhaps you would rather control every discussion? So I will ask again: what monk's work have you studied? Simple question. And like I said before, I am merely curious and don't really even care to discuss it. Besides, I couldn't compete with the sheer magnitude of facts you've accumulated.
Remember, you put your work out there - in a very dramatic, provocative fashion on an internet forum where people can freely comment - so don't fret when people have questions. If you can't handle that, then please move along.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
SDC wrote: I don't find it convenient at all. If you would enable your PM's, then those of us with broader questions about this campaign of yours can ask ON THEIR TERMS as opposed to yours ONLY.
Unfortunately the PM systems of website forums can also be an opportunity for the less than friendly or the mentally challenged to launch very unpleasant attacks on people who have different views to their own, as I have sometimes discovered myself on the internet in the past. Indeed I was even once told by a Mahayana person by PM that "bad things are going to happen to you in the future".
........... If you can't handle that, then please move along.
Please lets show some kindness and not over-react. Whatever happened to the practice of the Brahma Viharas ? I've been really saddened by some of the confrontational, off topic,and sometimes just plain nasty responses to this poster both here and in the thread that was closed...and that's not even mentioning the dire attempts at toilet humor.
Give him a break & be patient for goodness sake....
Aloka wrote:Please lets show some kindness and not over-react. Whatever happened to the practice of the Brahma Viharas ? I've been really saddened by some of the confrontational, off topic,and sometimes just plain nasty responses to this poster both here and in the thread that was closed...and that's not even mentioning the dire attempts at toilet humor.
Fortunately, it's possible to have good will for someone without liking them, wanting them around, or humoring their foolishness.
beeblebrox wrote:Most of that doesn't seem right to me... the only part that I would agree with is by not humoring them.
Well, here's an example I found yesterday of Maha Boowa expressing his displeasure. There are many others, including by the Buddha himself. Thanissaro has a great series of talks which clarify exactly what do and do not constitute the Brahmaviharas.
"He is clearly aiming for the presidency now. The monarch trampled, the religion trampled, the country trampled, by this savage and atrocious power in a few people in the government circle. That is the circle of ogres, of ghosts, of trolls, of demons, all in there....So even Devadatta saw the harm he caused, and he was rewarded for his good deed. He would attain Buddhahood. For those who have made mistakes, if we see the harm we cause, we can still get by. But what is it with Thailand? What kind of governance?"
"They even dare to accuse Luangta Maha Bua of playing politics. Politics, what dog shit. There’s only shit all over the country. I brought the Buddha’s dharma to cleanse in order for them to repent and recognize good and evil. Because they’re the government. The world flatters them as smart people, but don’t be smart down in a toilet. Don’t be smart about putting a torch to the head of everyone in the country, from Nation, Religion, and Monarchy on down. These guys will get burned unless they recognize the truth. I’m saddened by all this. How does this come about?"
fivebells wrote:
Well, here's an example I found yesterday of Maha Boowa expressing his displeasure. There are many others, including by the Buddha himself. Thanissaro has a great series of talks which clarify exactly what do and do not constitute the Brahmaviharas.
"He is clearly aiming for the presidency now. The monarch trampled, the religion trampled, the country trampled, by this savage and atrocious power in a few people in the government circle. That is the circle of ogres, of ghosts, of trolls, of demons, all in there....So even Devadatta saw the harm he caused, and he was rewarded for his good deed. He would attain Buddhahood. For those who have made mistakes, if we see the harm we cause, we can still get by. But what is it with Thailand? What kind of governance?"
"They even dare to accuse Luangta Maha Bua of playing politics. Politics, what dog shit. There’s only shit all over the country. I brought the Buddha’s dharma to cleanse in order for them to repent and recognize good and evil. Because they’re the government. The world flatters them as smart people, but don’t be smart down in a toilet. Don’t be smart about putting a torch to the head of everyone in the country, from Nation, Religion, and Monarchy on down. These guys will get burned unless they recognize the truth. I’m saddened by all this. How does this come about?"
Hi Fivebells,
I've never met Ven. Maha Boowa, and I'm sure he was a good teacher... but I hardly think he had any business in talking like that.
I'm not able to listen to any of Ven. Thanissaro's audio talks, unfortunately. I'm deaf.
SDC wrote: I don't find it convenient at all. If you would enable your PM's, then those of us with broader questions about this campaign of yours can ask ON THEIR TERMS as opposed to yours ONLY.
Unfortunately the PM systems of website forums can also be an opportunity for the less than friendly or the mentally challenged to launch very unpleasant attacks on people who have different views to their own, as I have sometimes discovered myself on the internet in the past. Indeed I was even once told by a Mahayana person by PM that "bad things are going to happen to you in the future".
Actually, had I been able to ask him through PM we would have ended up having a very pleasant discussion. I was actually looking forward to it until I saw it was disabled.
Aloka wrote:I've been really saddened by some of the confrontational, off topic,and sometimes just plain nasty responses to this poster both here and in the thread that was closed...and that's not even mentioning the dire attempts at toilet humor.
This has nothing to do with me, Aloka. I was curious about his background and had intended to share a few ideas because I happen to AGREE with some of his points. Unfortunately he seems to want it to stay one-sided, but I am doing my best to make it known that I would like to know a few things. Perhaps I was somewhat abrasive, but I was only matching his candor. I KNOW he can handle that.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Part of one of my earlier comments was the idea that Freelance reminds me of the brilliant French chef that throws knives at his kitchen staff when they underperform, or the cardiac surgeon that the nurses bristle at due to his hurled invectives, yet his patients all have high recovery rates. I thought it fairly cool that someone that had been in the Pali academic trenches and was offering some of his perspectives. Just as you needn't enjoy French cuisine, you needn't eat at the chef's café, nor do you need to pay attention to the "breath meditation involves flatulence" argument. My wrestling coach in school terrorized me, but he made me a better wrestler. Some of my grad school professors were impossibly difficult, but I still remember the holding of "Pierson v. Post." The point of all of this is that when we have someone weighing in with some really cool stuff, even if we don't agree with it all, it is good to remember the essence of the Brahmaviharas, or even to just be patient, and understanding that some people have enormous IQ and may lack some EQ, and vice versa. We all can be guilty of these imbalances. If Freelance doesn't contribute to DW further, I will regret this.
I think you brought up an interesting point early on in the thread when you mentioned Buddhadasa. The OP's general thesis, if I understand him correctly, is that what most of us think of as "Theravada Buddhism" is a distorted and sanitized product of inaccurate translation, deliberate obfuscation and misinterpretation, driven by the need to make the dhamma more palatable to Westerners.
How, then, should we see reformists such as Buddhadasa who emerged from within the indigenous tradition in their home countries? Are they, too, guilty of perpetuating a fraud? Why or why not?
I think you brought up an interesting point early on in the thread when you mentioned Buddhadasa. The OP's general thesis, if I understand him correctly, is that what most of us think of as "Theravada Buddhism" is a distorted and sanitized product of inaccurate translation, deliberate obfuscation and misinterpretation, driven by the need to make the dhamma more palatable to Westerners.
How, then, should we see reformists such as Buddhadasa who emerged from within the indigenous tradition in their home countries? Are they, too, guilty of perpetuating a fraud? Why or why not?
Hiya Lazy_eye,
I certainly agree with some of Buddhadasa's views - but that doesn't mean that I have fully investigated, or that I agree with, everything that he taught or was involved in.
Unfortunately I don't know enough about the history and teachings of traditional Buddhism in Thailand to be able to comment fully about the wider context.
Interesting observations. Are secular Buddhists -- Buddhist apologetics? (He doesn't use the term apologetics, but Euhemerism implies that) Are some of the modern interpretations that tend to make the Buddha pc nothing but Buddhist apologetics too?
Kasina wrote:Alright, now you've got my attention. Give me and example of a legitimate practice then. I'm genuinely curious.
A legitimate practice which leads to mind states reflected in protracted bitter rants about other people's fraudulence and ignorance? Gee, this sounds like so much fun. Where do I sign up?
This is exactly the impression I'm getting as I read more of Mazard's stuff... I don't really know about this guy.
"This world completely lacks essence;
It trembles in all directions.
I longed to find myself a place
Unscathed — but I could not see it."
Sn 4.15 PTS: Sn 935-951 "Attadanda Sutta: Arming Oneself"
"You will be required to do wrong no matter where you go... This is the curse at work, the curse that feeds on all life..."
Wilbur Mercer in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
Interesting observations. Are secular Buddhists -- Buddhist apologetics? (He doesn't use the term apologetics, but Euhemerism implies that) Are some of the modern interpretations that tend to make the Buddha pc nothing but Buddhist apologetics too?
