Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

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Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby indian_buddhist » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:52 am

Nibbana - from my understanding is the deathless stage.

It signifies the following:-

1. Complete destruction of Greed, Hatred and Delusion.
2. No more rebirths in any realm of existence.
3. It is a deathless stage.

My questions are :-
On attaining Nibbana:-
1. Where does one go?.
2. What are the qualities of attaining Nibbana. Is it pure happiness and bliss?.
3. Does one stay in Nibbana state permanently for infinite eons?.
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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby cooran » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:07 am

Hello Indian_Buddhist, all,

This LONG thread may be of interest:

Is the result of Parinibbana annihilation?
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1039

With metta,
Chris
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---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby Reductor » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:10 am

indian_buddhist wrote:Nibbana - from my understanding is the deathless stage.

It signifies the following:-

1. Complete destruction of Greed, Hatred and Delusion.
2. No more rebirths in any realm of existence.
3. It is a deathless stage.

My questions are :-
On attaining Nibbana:-
1. Where does one go?.
2. What are the qualities of attaining Nibbana. Is it pure happiness and bliss?.
3. Does one stay in Nibbana state permanently for infinite eons?.


1. Once you've attained nibbana, you no longer have a fixed conception of you and no longer place any importance on whether you continue or cease, or change or whatever. But, to the point, Nibbana is not a place and no one can 'go there'. You simply cease to cling to your own existence and no longer think of yourself as eternal and unchanging, and what it is more, you have no desire for an eternal, unchanging self.

2. Nibbana has no feeling. It is not something that exists, but is lack greed, hate and delusion and all the mental states, and mental turmoil, that arise because of them. But, when an arahant reflects on the cessation of greed, hate, delusion, and all the mental turmoil, they feel pleasure. But they don't try to keep that pleasure for ever, and don't morn when it fades away.

3. No one stays in nibbana for ever. But once greed, hate and delusion have been existinguished in a human being, they don't return. So, this non-returning of greed, hate and delusion could be seen as eternal nibbana.
Michael

The thoughts I've expressed in the above post are carefully considered and offered in good faith.

And friendliness towards the world is happiness for him who is forbearing with living beings. -- Ud. 2:1
To his own ruin the fool gains knowledge, for it cleaves his head and destroys his innate goodness. -- Dhp 72

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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby indian_buddhist » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:12 am

cooran wrote:Hello Indian_Buddhist, all,

This LONG thread may be of interest:

Is the result of Parinibbana annihilation?
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1039

With metta,
Chris


Hello Chris,

I completely know it is not Annihilation. Obviously it is not annihilation. How can it be Annihilation?.....Annihilation is end of everything - both Good qualities and Bad qualities.

But Nibbana is destruction of only the Bad qualities - Greed, Hatred and Delusion. Once that is achieved.....I am interested to know what happens after that?.
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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby indian_buddhist » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:30 am

Reductor wrote:

3. No one stays in nibbana for ever. But once greed, hate and delusion have been existinguished in a human being, they don't return. So, this non-returning of greed, hate and delusion could be seen as eternal nibbana.


Are you sure about this?. I thought Nibbana was a Deathless state - a Permanent state of being. Correct me if i am wrong.
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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:35 am

Where does a flame go when it is extinguished?

Nibbāna is not a place, so no one "goes to nibbāna," and there are no Buddhas or Arahants "in nibbāna."

The self-view is an illusion. When that illusion has been understood, the two extreme wrong views of annihilationism and eternalism will also be destroyed.
Last edited by Bhikkhu Pesala on Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:35 am

indian_buddhist wrote:
Reductor wrote:

3. No one stays in nibbana for ever. But once greed, hate and delusion have been existinguished in a human being, they don't return. So, this non-returning of greed, hate and delusion could be seen as eternal nibbana.


Are you sure about this?. I thought Nibbana was a Deathless state - a Permanent state of being. Correct me if i am wrong.
It is wrongly put. Nibbana, by definition, is the destruction of greed, hatred, and delusion. There is no "in nibbana" except in a figurative sense.

    S.N. IV 251 and IV 321: "That which is the destruction of greed, hatred and delusion is nibbana."
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby indian_buddhist » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:45 am

Again and Again the Buddha talks about Noble ones seek the Deathless - One which is not subject to Rebirth.

So Nibbana has to be Permanent right?.

I am not talking of Eternalism - Eternalism means those who speak of a permanent Soul who may goto heaven on doing good deeds but will fall back to Animal Realm or Hell later on.
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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby Reductor » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:56 am

indian_buddhist wrote:
Reductor wrote:

3. No one stays in nibbana for ever. But once greed, hate and delusion have been existinguished in a human being, they don't return. So, this non-returning of greed, hate and delusion could be seen as eternal nibbana.


Are you sure about this?. I thought Nibbana was a Deathless state - a Permanent state of being. Correct me if i am wrong.


THere is no permanent state of being. Greed, Hate and Delusion confound us into thinking that there is, or that there could be. But there isn't, and there can't be. Nibbana is when we realize that there is nothing within us or outside us that exists eternally - having realized this truth deeply and truly, we stop longing for such a thing, and stop getting upset when the good fades away, or when the bad takes its place. The human being, while alive, no longer suffers pains and arrows when his or her plans go wrong, or things are lost. The human being, on death, does not demand their own existence continue, nor do they demand that it end - they just know that there never was anything permanent here, and there never will be.

So, to repeat, Nibbana is the lack of Greed, HAte and Delusion. Once those things are gone from a human being, they do not return. For that human being, there is a lack of Greed, Hate and Delusion for the remainder of life. And when their life ends, there still isn't any Greed, Hate and Delusion for them. That's 'Eternal Nibbana', a term that confuses so many.
Michael

The thoughts I've expressed in the above post are carefully considered and offered in good faith.

And friendliness towards the world is happiness for him who is forbearing with living beings. -- Ud. 2:1
To his own ruin the fool gains knowledge, for it cleaves his head and destroys his innate goodness. -- Dhp 72

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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby indian_buddhist » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:37 am

Ok so from your guys understanding an Ordinary Folk who has not achieved Arhant has no way of figuring out what Nibbana is?.

Meaning it is the UNDETERMINED.......Meaning one does not know if it is permanent or non-permanent.

Atleast can anyone tell me Nibbana means Happiness , Bliss or even that information is UNKNOWN.

If it is unknown then is it going after the Unknown is 8 Fold noble path followed?.
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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby pegembara » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:55 am

A link to the great master Ajahn Chah's description of nibbana :

This is the nature of enlightenment; it’s the extinguishing of fire, the cooling of that which was hot. This is peace. This is the end of samsāra, the cycle of birth and death. When you arrive at enlightenment, this is how it is. It’s an ending of the ever-turning and ever-changing, an ending of greed, aversion and delusion in our minds. We talk about it in terms of happiness because this is how worldly people understand the ideal to be, but in reality it has gone beyond. It is beyond both happiness and suffering. It’s perfect peace.

http://www.theravada-dhamma.org/blog/?p=11041
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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:33 am

My article on What is Nibbāna? may help you to understand.
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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby indian_buddhist » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:51 am

OK I had to say this:-

What is the motivation for the 8 fold-noble path if the result as you say is - UNKNOWN?. In fact what is the USE of following the path when the end result is UNKNOWN?.

OK it is easy for a Monk to run away from the world - shut yourself off to some isolated forest where they can keep a large distance between the greedy , hating and deluded folks of the mundane world as the Monks say. Someone will provide for their food anyway. So they can sit and do meditation all day...

There in the forest isolated from the deluded world, then can leisurely follow the 8-fold noble path and noone will disturb them.

What about a Layman?........What is the motivation for him to follow the path?. He has to tackle Greedy, hating and deluded people EVERYDAY , EVERY MOMENT in day to day life and still strive hard to keep the 5 precepts.........If in the end of it all , What he can achieve is UNKNOWN?......Why does he have to undergo the pains to follow the 8 Fold path?.

Like I said it is easy for a Monk to run away from the world to some isolated place and follow his path where noone will bother to disturb him.

Further, what about Poor people? . It is easy for Western people to follow Buddhism because they live in comforts of life. Here in India, there are poor people who do daily Physical labour for 12-14 hours per day lifting weights of 100 kgs behind their back for an earning of 100 Rs(2 Dollar) per day.

What is the Motivation for him to follow Buddhism if all he can gain from it is UNKNOWN?.
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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:38 am

Whether one is a monk or a householder, the motivation for developing the path is the same — to get free from suffering.

  1. The first Noble Truth of Suffering has to be fully understood. As long as we are not yet Arahants, then we have not yet fully understood it.
  2. The second Noble Truth of the Cause of Suffering, which is craving, has to be abandoned. As long as we are not free from craving and attachment, we will continue to suffer.
  3. The third Noble truth of the Cessation of Suffering, which is nibbāna, has to be realised. As long as we have not attained the first path of Stream-winning, nibbāna is still unknown to us. However, suffering is known to us, at least to some extent. If we abandon craving, at least to some extent, then we can enjoy the benefit by suffering less than we did before, when we had more craving and less undestanding.
  4. The fourth Noble truth of the Path leading to the Cessation of suffering has to be developed. That is, we have to undertake and observe morality, develop concentration, and gain wisdom. As we develop the path, suffering will gradually be reduced, until the final goal is reached, when it will cease entirely forever.
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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:59 am

:goodpost:

The Buddha himself told us, that he came to merely teach Suffering, and release from Suffering.

Simple.

('Simple', :quote: yes.... 'Easy'....? Not so much! :meditate: )

:namaste:
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby SamKR » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:03 pm

indian_buddhist wrote:Atleast can anyone tell me Nibbana means Happiness , Bliss or even that information is UNKNOWN.


"This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Nibbana."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... bbana.html
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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:10 pm

This seems to be a common, recurring issue for many, so I added some controversial views to an article I wrote on Nibbana:

http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Nibbana

There you will find some very controversial ideas which some would call eternalism, but may help in setting the issue aside for now.
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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby SarathW » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:23 am

indian_buddhist wrote:OK I had to say this:-

What is the motivation for the 8 fold-noble path if the result as you say is - UNKNOWN?. In fact what is the USE of following the path when the end result is UNKNOWN?.

OK it is easy for a Monk to run away from the world - shut yourself off to some isolated forest where they can keep a large distance between the greedy , hating and deluded folks of the mundane world as the Monks say. Someone will provide for their food anyway. So they can sit and do meditation all day...

There in the forest isolated from the deluded world, then can leisurely follow the 8-fold noble path and noone will disturb them.

What about a Layman?........What is the motivation for him to follow the path?. He has to tackle Greedy, hating and deluded people EVERYDAY , EVERY MOMENT in day to day life and still strive hard to keep the 5 precepts.........If in the end of it all , What he can achieve is UNKNOWN?......Why does he have to undergo the pains to follow the 8 Fold path?.

Like I said it is easy for a Monk to run away from the world to some isolated place and follow his path where noone will bother to disturb him.

Further, what about Poor people? . It is easy for Western people to follow Buddhism because they live in comforts of life. Here in India, there are poor people who do daily Physical labour for 12-14 hours per day lifting weights of 100 kgs behind their back for an earning of 100 Rs(2 Dollar) per day.

What is the Motivation for him to follow Buddhism if all he can gain from it is UNKNOWN?.


David quite correctly pointed it out:
The correct view?

The correct view will be found in the practice when one reaches full enlightenment and experiences Nibbana first hand. Until then Buddhists can continue on with their practice, continuing to follow the teachings and practice as outlined in the Pali Canon and see on their own which one is right or mostly right.
========
With the above note:
-Nibbana can be known to you. Please observe five precepts and do one hour meditation every day for three months to just get some taste of it.

- Many good monks do a 18 hours unpaid service to the community. It is unfortunate you have not meet one of them in India. Probably you could be the first! :)

- You meet difficult people even if you are a monk. Take that as a challenge to test your practice.

- Buddha helped lot of hard working people.

- Do not worry about other. Can you do it?
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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby pegembara » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:04 am

What about a Layman?........What is the motivation for him to follow the path?. He has to tackle Greedy, hating and deluded people EVERYDAY , EVERY MOMENT in day to day life and still strive hard to keep the 5 precepts.........If in the end of it all , What he can achieve is UNKNOWN?......Why does he have to undergo the pains to follow the 8 Fold path?.

Like I said it is easy for a Monk to run away from the world to some isolated place and follow his path where noone will bother to disturb him.

Further, what about Poor people? . It is easy for Western people to follow Buddhism because they live in comforts of life. Here in India, there are poor people who do daily Physical labour for 12-14 hours per day lifting weights of 100 kgs behind their back for an earning of 100 Rs(2 Dollar) per day.




"Monks, there are these two searches: ignoble search & noble search. And what is ignoble search? There is the case where a person, being subject himself to birth, seeks [happiness in] what is likewise subject to birth. Being subject himself to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, he seeks [happiness in] what is likewise subject to illness... death... sorrow... defilement.

"And what may be said to be subject to birth? Spouses & children are subject to birth. Men & women slaves... goats & sheep... fowl & pigs... elephants, cattle, horses, & mares... gold & silver are subject to birth. Subject to birth are these acquisitions, and one who is tied to them, infatuated with them, who has totally fallen for them, being subject to birth, seeks what is likewise subject to birth.

"And what may be said to be subject to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement? Spouses & children... men & women slaves... goats & sheep... fowl & pigs... elephants, cattle, horses, & mares... gold & silver [2] are subject to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement. Subject to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement are these acquisitions, and one who is tied to them, infatuated with them, who has totally fallen for them, being subject to birth, seeks what is likewise subject to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement. This is ignoble search.

"And what is the noble search? There is the case where a person, himself being subject to birth, seeing the drawbacks of birth, seeks the unborn, unexcelled rest from the yoke: Unbinding. Himself being subject to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, seeing the drawbacks of aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, seeks the aging-less, illness-less, deathless, sorrow-less, undefiled, unexcelled rest from the yoke: Unbinding. This is the noble search.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby Virgo » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:51 am

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