the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread

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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby indian_buddhist » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:45 am

Again and Again the Buddha talks about Noble ones seek the Deathless - One which is not subject to Rebirth.

So Nibbana has to be Permanent right?.

I am not talking of Eternalism - Eternalism means those who speak of a permanent Soul who may goto heaven on doing good deeds but will fall back to Animal Realm or Hell later on.
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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby Reductor » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:56 am

indian_buddhist wrote:
Reductor wrote:

3. No one stays in nibbana for ever. But once greed, hate and delusion have been existinguished in a human being, they don't return. So, this non-returning of greed, hate and delusion could be seen as eternal nibbana.


Are you sure about this?. I thought Nibbana was a Deathless state - a Permanent state of being. Correct me if i am wrong.


THere is no permanent state of being. Greed, Hate and Delusion confound us into thinking that there is, or that there could be. But there isn't, and there can't be. Nibbana is when we realize that there is nothing within us or outside us that exists eternally - having realized this truth deeply and truly, we stop longing for such a thing, and stop getting upset when the good fades away, or when the bad takes its place. The human being, while alive, no longer suffers pains and arrows when his or her plans go wrong, or things are lost. The human being, on death, does not demand their own existence continue, nor do they demand that it end - they just know that there never was anything permanent here, and there never will be.

So, to repeat, Nibbana is the lack of Greed, HAte and Delusion. Once those things are gone from a human being, they do not return. For that human being, there is a lack of Greed, Hate and Delusion for the remainder of life. And when their life ends, there still isn't any Greed, Hate and Delusion for them. That's 'Eternal Nibbana', a term that confuses so many.
Michael

The thoughts I've expressed in the above post are carefully considered and offered in good faith.

And friendliness towards the world is happiness for him who is forbearing with living beings. -- Ud. 2:1
To his own ruin the fool gains knowledge, for it cleaves his head and destroys his innate goodness. -- Dhp 72


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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby indian_buddhist » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:37 am

Ok so from your guys understanding an Ordinary Folk who has not achieved Arhant has no way of figuring out what Nibbana is?.

Meaning it is the UNDETERMINED.......Meaning one does not know if it is permanent or non-permanent.

Atleast can anyone tell me Nibbana means Happiness , Bliss or even that information is UNKNOWN.

If it is unknown then is it going after the Unknown is 8 Fold noble path followed?.
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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby pegembara » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:55 am

A link to the great master Ajahn Chah's description of nibbana :

This is the nature of enlightenment; it’s the extinguishing of fire, the cooling of that which was hot. This is peace. This is the end of samsāra, the cycle of birth and death. When you arrive at enlightenment, this is how it is. It’s an ending of the ever-turning and ever-changing, an ending of greed, aversion and delusion in our minds. We talk about it in terms of happiness because this is how worldly people understand the ideal to be, but in reality it has gone beyond. It is beyond both happiness and suffering. It’s perfect peace.

http://www.theravada-dhamma.org/blog/?p=11041
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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:33 am

My article on What is Nibbāna? may help you to understand.
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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby indian_buddhist » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:51 am

OK I had to say this:-

What is the motivation for the 8 fold-noble path if the result as you say is - UNKNOWN?. In fact what is the USE of following the path when the end result is UNKNOWN?.

OK it is easy for a Monk to run away from the world - shut yourself off to some isolated forest where they can keep a large distance between the greedy , hating and deluded folks of the mundane world as the Monks say. Someone will provide for their food anyway. So they can sit and do meditation all day...

There in the forest isolated from the deluded world, then can leisurely follow the 8-fold noble path and noone will disturb them.

What about a Layman?........What is the motivation for him to follow the path?. He has to tackle Greedy, hating and deluded people EVERYDAY , EVERY MOMENT in day to day life and still strive hard to keep the 5 precepts.........If in the end of it all , What he can achieve is UNKNOWN?......Why does he have to undergo the pains to follow the 8 Fold path?.

Like I said it is easy for a Monk to run away from the world to some isolated place and follow his path where noone will bother to disturb him.

Further, what about Poor people? . It is easy for Western people to follow Buddhism because they live in comforts of life. Here in India, there are poor people who do daily Physical labour for 12-14 hours per day lifting weights of 100 kgs behind their back for an earning of 100 Rs(2 Dollar) per day.

What is the Motivation for him to follow Buddhism if all he can gain from it is UNKNOWN?.
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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:38 am

Whether one is a monk or a householder, the motivation for developing the path is the same — to get free from suffering.

  1. The first Noble Truth of Suffering has to be fully understood. As long as we are not yet Arahants, then we have not yet fully understood it.
  2. The second Noble Truth of the Cause of Suffering, which is craving, has to be abandoned. As long as we are not free from craving and attachment, we will continue to suffer.
  3. The third Noble truth of the Cessation of Suffering, which is nibbāna, has to be realised. As long as we have not attained the first path of Stream-winning, nibbāna is still unknown to us. However, suffering is known to us, at least to some extent. If we abandon craving, at least to some extent, then we can enjoy the benefit by suffering less than we did before, when we had more craving and less undestanding.
  4. The fourth Noble truth of the Path leading to the Cessation of suffering has to be developed. That is, we have to undertake and observe morality, develop concentration, and gain wisdom. As we develop the path, suffering will gradually be reduced, until the final goal is reached, when it will cease entirely forever.
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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:59 am

:goodpost:

The Buddha himself told us, that he came to merely teach Suffering, and release from Suffering.

Simple.

('Simple', :quote: yes.... 'Easy'....? Not so much! :meditate: )

:namaste:
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....

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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby SamKR » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:03 pm

indian_buddhist wrote:Atleast can anyone tell me Nibbana means Happiness , Bliss or even that information is UNKNOWN.


"This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Nibbana."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... bbana.html

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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:10 pm

This seems to be a common, recurring issue for many, so I added some controversial views to an article I wrote on Nibbana:

http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Nibbana

There you will find some very controversial ideas which some would call eternalism, but may help in setting the issue aside for now.

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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby SarathW » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:23 am

indian_buddhist wrote:OK I had to say this:-

What is the motivation for the 8 fold-noble path if the result as you say is - UNKNOWN?. In fact what is the USE of following the path when the end result is UNKNOWN?.

OK it is easy for a Monk to run away from the world - shut yourself off to some isolated forest where they can keep a large distance between the greedy , hating and deluded folks of the mundane world as the Monks say. Someone will provide for their food anyway. So they can sit and do meditation all day...

There in the forest isolated from the deluded world, then can leisurely follow the 8-fold noble path and noone will disturb them.

What about a Layman?........What is the motivation for him to follow the path?. He has to tackle Greedy, hating and deluded people EVERYDAY , EVERY MOMENT in day to day life and still strive hard to keep the 5 precepts.........If in the end of it all , What he can achieve is UNKNOWN?......Why does he have to undergo the pains to follow the 8 Fold path?.

Like I said it is easy for a Monk to run away from the world to some isolated place and follow his path where noone will bother to disturb him.

Further, what about Poor people? . It is easy for Western people to follow Buddhism because they live in comforts of life. Here in India, there are poor people who do daily Physical labour for 12-14 hours per day lifting weights of 100 kgs behind their back for an earning of 100 Rs(2 Dollar) per day.

What is the Motivation for him to follow Buddhism if all he can gain from it is UNKNOWN?.


David quite correctly pointed it out:
The correct view?

The correct view will be found in the practice when one reaches full enlightenment and experiences Nibbana first hand. Until then Buddhists can continue on with their practice, continuing to follow the teachings and practice as outlined in the Pali Canon and see on their own which one is right or mostly right.
========
With the above note:
-Nibbana can be known to you. Please observe five precepts and do one hour meditation every day for three months to just get some taste of it.

- Many good monks do a 18 hours unpaid service to the community. It is unfortunate you have not meet one of them in India. Probably you could be the first! :)

- You meet difficult people even if you are a monk. Take that as a challenge to test your practice.

- Buddha helped lot of hard working people.

- Do not worry about other. Can you do it?
:)

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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby pegembara » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:04 am

What about a Layman?........What is the motivation for him to follow the path?. He has to tackle Greedy, hating and deluded people EVERYDAY , EVERY MOMENT in day to day life and still strive hard to keep the 5 precepts.........If in the end of it all , What he can achieve is UNKNOWN?......Why does he have to undergo the pains to follow the 8 Fold path?.

Like I said it is easy for a Monk to run away from the world to some isolated place and follow his path where noone will bother to disturb him.

Further, what about Poor people? . It is easy for Western people to follow Buddhism because they live in comforts of life. Here in India, there are poor people who do daily Physical labour for 12-14 hours per day lifting weights of 100 kgs behind their back for an earning of 100 Rs(2 Dollar) per day.




"Monks, there are these two searches: ignoble search & noble search. And what is ignoble search? There is the case where a person, being subject himself to birth, seeks [happiness in] what is likewise subject to birth. Being subject himself to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, he seeks [happiness in] what is likewise subject to illness... death... sorrow... defilement.

"And what may be said to be subject to birth? Spouses & children are subject to birth. Men & women slaves... goats & sheep... fowl & pigs... elephants, cattle, horses, & mares... gold & silver are subject to birth. Subject to birth are these acquisitions, and one who is tied to them, infatuated with them, who has totally fallen for them, being subject to birth, seeks what is likewise subject to birth.

"And what may be said to be subject to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement? Spouses & children... men & women slaves... goats & sheep... fowl & pigs... elephants, cattle, horses, & mares... gold & silver [2] are subject to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement. Subject to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement are these acquisitions, and one who is tied to them, infatuated with them, who has totally fallen for them, being subject to birth, seeks what is likewise subject to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement. This is ignoble search.

"And what is the noble search? There is the case where a person, himself being subject to birth, seeing the drawbacks of birth, seeks the unborn, unexcelled rest from the yoke: Unbinding. Himself being subject to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, seeing the drawbacks of aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, seeks the aging-less, illness-less, deathless, sorrow-less, undefiled, unexcelled rest from the yoke: Unbinding. This is the noble search.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby Virgo » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:51 am

.

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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby Dhammakid » Mon May 05, 2014 10:12 pm

There are some really good responses here. I'd like to offer this text by Thanissaro Bhikkhu, a comprehensive exploration of the concept of nibbana.

Mind Like Fire Unbound
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... index.html

Even just reading the abstract greatly helped me understand this concept, and diving into the more involved parts gave me a deep appreciation for practice towards liberation.

Here are some key excerpts from the abstract:

"Any discussion of the way the Buddha used the term nibbāna must begin with the distinction that there are two levels of nibbāna (or, to use the original terminology, two nibbāna properties). The first is the nibbāna experienced by a person who has attained the goal and is still alive. This is described metaphorically as the extinguishing of passion, aversion, & delusion. The second is the nibbāna after death. The simile for these two states is the distinction between a fire that has gone out but whose embers are still warm, and one so totally out that its embers are cold. The Buddha used the views of fire current in his day in somewhat different ways when discussing these two levels of nibbāna, and so we must consider them separately.

"To understand the implications of nibbāna in the present life, it is necessary to know something of the way in which fire is described in the Pali Canon. There, fire is said to be caused by the excitation or agitation of the heat property. To continue burning, it must have sustenance(upādāna). Its relationship to its sustenance is one of clinging, dependence, & entrapment. When it goes out, the heat property is no longer agitated, and the fire is said to be freed. Thus the metaphor of nibbāna in this case would have implications of calming together with release from dependencies, attachments, & bondage. This in turn suggests that of all the attempts to describe the etymology of the word nibbāna, the closest is the one Buddhaghosa proposed in The Path of Purification: Un- (nir) + binding (vāna): Unbinding.

"To understand further what is meant by the unbinding of the mind, it is also important to know that the word upādāna — the sustenance for the fire — also means clinging, and that according to the Buddha the mind has four forms of clinging that keep it in bondage: clinging to sensuality, to views, to precepts & practices, and to doctrines of the self. In each case, the clinging is the passion & desire the mind feels for these things. To overcome this clinging, then, the mind must see not only the drawbacks of these four objects of clinging, but, more importantly, the drawbacks of the act of passion & desire itself."
.....

"The mind at this point attains Deathlessness, although there is no sense of 'I' in the attainment. There is simply the realization, 'There is this.' From this point onward the mind experiences mental & physical phenomena with a sense of being dissociated from them. One simile for this state is that of a hide removed from the carcass of a cow: Even if the hide is then placed back on the cow, one cannot say that it is attached as before, because the connective tissues that once held the hide to the carcass — in other words, passion & desire — have all been cut (by the knife of discernment). The person who has attained the goal — called a Tathāgata in some contexts, an arahant in others — thus lives out the remainder of his/her life in the world, but independent of it.

"Death as experienced by a Tathāgata is described simply as, 'All this, no longer being relished, grows cold right here.' All attempts to describe the experience of nibbāna or the state of the Tathāgata after death — as existing, not existing, both, or neither — are refuted by the Buddha. To explain his point, he again makes use of the metaphor of the extinguished fire, although here he draws on the Vedic view of latent fire as modified by Buddhist notions of what does and does not lie within the realm of valid description."
.......

"The Buddha borrows two points from the Vedic notion of fire to illustrate this point. Even if one wants to assume that fire still exists after being extinguished, it is (1) so subtle that it cannot be perceived, and (2) so diffuse that it cannot be said to go to any one place or in any particular direction. Just as notions of going east, west, north, or south do not apply to an extinguished fire, notions of existing and so forth do not apply to the Tathāgata after death.

"As for the question of how nibbāna is experienced after death, the Buddha says that there is no limit in that experience by which it could be described. The word 'limit' here is the important one. In one of the ancient Vedic myths of creation, the universe starts when a limit appears that separates male from female, sky from earth. Thus the implication of the Buddha's statement is that the experience of nibbāna is so free from even the most basic notions making up the universe that it lies beyond description. This implication is borne out by other passages stating that there is nothing in that experience of the known universe — earth, water, wind, fire, sun, moon, darkness, coming, going, or stasis — at all.

"Thus, when viewed in light of the way the Pali Canon describes the workings of fire and uses fire imagery to describe the workings of the mind, it is clear that the word nibbāna is primarily meant to convey notions of freedom: freedom in the present life from agitation, dependency, & clinging; and freedom after death from even the most basic concepts or limitations — such as existence, non-existence, both, or neither — that make up the describable universe."
.....

:anjali:
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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby Kwaingo » Thu May 15, 2014 3:48 am

Indian Buddhist wrote: "It is easy for Western people to follow Buddhism because they live in comforts of life. Here in India, there are poor people who do daily Physical labour for 12-14 hours per day lifting weights of 100 kgs behind their back for an earning of 100 Rs(2 Dollar) per day."

Hmmm....just curious, why this quote about "western people" (whatever country they come from, people of European descent I presume, or Farang as we call them...) Just a clue, most Buddhists are not westerners. Most are Asian, and most are poor(as are most people in the world btw, at least in terms of money). I am Lao. In Laos, people are poor, even more poor than what you describe. Some make LESS than the equivalent of $1 a day, so the amount you quote would be quite fantastic to most Lao people, $60 a month could be considered middle class! And we work just as hard. Do you assume that most posters on this forum are a bunch of privileged white folks living in America or Europe? Most Buddhists are poor, whether it be Thailand, Sri Lanka, Cambodia, Myanmar, Laos, etc. Yet many of us try to follow Dhamma. And many follow Dhamma devoutly. Many ordain as monks or as precept-keeping laypeople. How does "comfort" make it easier to follow Buddhism? I can see how it could also be a hindrance. Many poor people in southeast Asia ordain as monks to escape poverty, to have more opportunities to study, etc. The level of devotion to Buddhism in a country like Myanmar is humbling, no, their poverty, nor the poverty of Lao, Thai, Cambodian, Sri Lankan, etc. does prevents them from being Buddhist or following the teachings of Buddha, meditating, going to the monastery, doing other Buddhist things. If anything, it makes them try harder, to seek a better rebirth or even Nibbana. So I am not totally clear what your point is, and I think you are making some serious assumptions.

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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby seeker242 » Thu May 15, 2014 11:09 am

indian_buddhist wrote:Again and Again the Buddha talks about Noble ones seek the Deathless - One which is not subject to Rebirth.

So Nibbana has to be Permanent right?.



Conventionally speaking, yes. The Buddha could not stop being a Buddha and go back to being an ordinary person again, that would be impossible. It's a final end of suffering and rebirth.

But to ask "where does one go after?" is a misguided question to begin with because the concept of "one", it fails to take into account "Anatta".

I like this little story.:)

Once there was a layman who came to Ajahn Chah and asked him who Ajahn Chah was. Ajahn Chah, seeing that the spiritual development of the individual was not very advanced, pointed to himself and said, "This, this is Ajahn Chah."

On another occasion, Ajahn Chah was asked the same question by someone else. This time, however, seeing that the questioner's capacity to understand the Dhamma was higher, Ajahn Chah answered by saying, "Ajahn Chah? There is NO Ajahn Chah."


If there is "no Ajahn Chah", then how can Ajahn Chah go anywhere? If there is no Ajahn Chah, the whole question becomes not applicable.

What is the Motivation for him to follow Buddhism if all he can gain from it is UNKNOWN?


Faith that what the Buddha says is true. Faith that you can realize what the Buddha realized and find freedom, where the unknown becomes known. :smile:

I like this explanation. :)

If we follow through the comparison of the Buddhist discipline to a tree, faith (saddha) would be the seed, for it is faith that provides the initial impulse through which the training is taken up, and faith again that nourishes the training through every phase of its development. Virtue would be the roots, for it is virtue that gives grounding to our spiritual endeavors just as the roots give grounding to a tree. Concentration would be the trunk, the symbol of strength, non-vacillation, and stability. And wisdom would be the branches, which yield the flowers of enlightenment and the fruits of deliverance. http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... html#roots

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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby Lostegasa » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:48 pm

Dhammakid wrote:The first is the nibbāna experienced by a person who has attained the goal and is still alive. This is described metaphorically as the extinguishing of passion, aversion, & delusion. The second is the nibbāna after death. The simile for these two states is the distinction between a fire that has gone out but whose embers are still warm, and one so totally out that its embers are cold. The Buddha used the views of fire current in his day in somewhat different ways when discussing these two levels of nibbāna, and so we must consider them separately.


Hello Dhammakid and all, I loved this topic and the post of Dhammakid also about Nibbana and this quote.
The Fire from my experience is this power and energy of life and any effort of doing, acting, breathing, living, digging, lasting, feeling, joking (hope you got it) and this power goes upward towards Nibbana through great effort and discernment. What left is nothing of your concern and death will take it.

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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby dhammacoustic » Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:03 pm

Reductor wrote:
1. Once you've attained nibbana, you no longer have a fixed conception of you and no longer place any importance on whether you continue or cease, or change or whatever. But, to the point, Nibbana is not a place and no one can 'go there'. You simply cease to cling to your own existence and no longer think of yourself as eternal and unchanging, and what it is more, you have no desire for an eternal, unchanging self.

2. Nibbana has no feeling. It is not something that exists, but is lack greed, hate and delusion and all the mental states, and mental turmoil, that arise because of them. But, when an arahant reflects on the cessation of greed, hate, delusion, and all the mental turmoil, they feel pleasure. But they don't try to keep that pleasure for ever, and don't morn when it fades away.

3. No one stays in nibbana for ever. But once greed, hate and delusion have been existinguished in a human being, they don't return. So, this non-returning of greed, hate and delusion could be seen as eternal nibbana.


Hi, but I should inform you that you're knowledge about Nibbana is not really accurate. Nibbana has nothing to do with annihilation. It can't be described using conventional words, that's all. It's not a state of being or non-being - totally different than all sorts temporal individual experiences.

indian_buddhist wrote:My questions are :-

On attaining Nibbana:-
1. Where does one go?.
2. What are the qualities of attaining Nibbana. Is it pure happiness and bliss?.
3. Does one stay in Nibbana state permanently for infinite eons?.


1. It's true that Nibbana has its unique sphere, which is beyond all samsaric and formless existence.
2. I haven't experienced it. But i know a few things about it, talked to many people and i have my knowledge on idea level still. But if you wanna hear, i'd say that Nibbana is beyond joy and pain. It's calm, cool, the point where there is no need to go any further. The point which allows you to be still and restful outside of all sorts of time/movement zones. The ultimate thing.
3. No, there is no "staying" in Nibbana. Once Nibbana is seen, the next is to experience it, and after that - you are Nibbana. Infinite eons - it's nothing compared to what is "unconditional", see?

Hope it helped.
∞ Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammāsambuddhassā ∞

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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby Aloka » Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:35 am

This free book " The Island - teachings on Nibanna " by Ajahn Amaro & Ajahn Pasanno might be helpful.

http://forestsanghapublications.org/viewBook.php?id=10&ref=deb


7) “And what, Ānanda, is the perception of cessation? Here, having gone to the forest, to the root of a tree, or to an empty hut, a bhikkhu reflects thus: ‘This is peaceful, this is sublime, that is, the stilling of all activities, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the destruction of craving, cessation, nibbāna.’ This is called the perception of cessation."

http://suttacentral.net/en/an10.60



:anjali:

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Re: Where does one go on attaining Nibbana

Postby Kusala » Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:37 am

indian_buddhist wrote:Nibbana - from my understanding is the deathless stage.

It signifies the following:-

1. Complete destruction of Greed, Hatred and Delusion.
2. No more rebirths in any realm of existence.
3. It is a deathless stage.

My questions are :-
On attaining Nibbana:-
1. Where does one go?.
2. What are the qualities of attaining Nibbana. Is it pure happiness and bliss?.
3. Does one stay in Nibbana state permanently for infinite eons?.


The Nature of Nirvana

King Milinda said: "I will grant you, Nagasena, that Nirvana is absolute ease, and that nevertheless one cannot point to its form or shape, its duration or size, either by simile or explanation, by reason or by argument. But is there perhaps some quality of Nirvana which it shares with other things, and which lends itself to a metaphorical explanation?"

"Its form, O King, cannot be elucidated by similes, but its qualities can."

"How good to hear that, Nagasena! Speak then, quickly, so that I may have an explanation of even one of the aspects of Nirvana! Appease the fever of my heart! Allay it with the cool sweet breezes of your words!"


"Nirvana shares one quality with the lotus, two with water, three with medicine, ten with space, three with the wishing jewel, and five with a mountain peak. As the lotus is unstained by water, so is Nirvana unstained by all the defilements. As cool water allays feverish heat, so also Nirvana is cool and allays the fever of all the passions. Moreover, as water removes the thirst of men and beasts who are exhausted, parched, and thirsty, and overpowered by heat, so also Nirvana removes the craving for sensuous enjoyments, the craving for further becoming, the craving for the cessation of becoming. As medicine protects from the torments of poisons, so Nirvana protects from the torments of the poisonous passions.

Moreover, as medicine puts an end to sickness, so Nirvana puts an end to all sufferings. Finally, Nirvana and medicine both give security. And these are the ten qualities which Nirvana shares with space. Neither is born, grows old, dies, passes away, or is reborn; both are unconquerable, cannot be stolen, are unsupported, are roads respectively for birds and Arhats to journey on, are unobstructed and infinite. Like the wishing jewel, Nirvana grants all one can desire, brings joy, and sheds light. As a mountain peak is lofty and exalted, so is Nirvana. As a mountain peak is unshakeable, so is Nirvana. As a mountain is inaccessible, so is Nirvana inaccessible to all the passions. As no seeds can grow on a mountain peak, so the seeds of all the passions cannot grow in Nirvana. And finally, as a mountain peak is free from all desire to please or displease, so is Nirvana!"


"Well said, Nagasena! So it is, and as much I accept it."


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"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

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"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "


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