Kamma and Kamma-phala

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Kamma and Kamma-phala

Postby indian_buddhist » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:11 am

I am trying to understand Kamma (Seed) and Kamma-phala (fruit of the seed).

My question is :- One Wholesome/Unwholesome/Neither wholesome or unwholesome Kamma has been done in a situation then does the exact situation needs to come into being for that kamma to become ripe?.

To give you a simile:- Suppose for your own selfish reasons you hurt someone who loves you or you leave someone who loves...........The Phala would need the same situation to happen again to ripe?....Like YOU have to fall in love with someone and then that someone will ditch you .

Or the bad Kamma of leaving that girl will be repaid in other forms irrelevant to the original situation (Like you getting Ill or getting a disease for the original bad kamma of ditching a girl who loves you).

I hope you understood about my first question.

2. My second question is that :- Buddha has said that it is better that you get the Phala in this life itself because if NOT then your accumulated Kamma which did not get an opportunity to ripen (phala) would have accumulated so much that it could decide your next rebirth (next realm of existence).

I know the Buddha said that it is useless to predict or link Kamma and results. But forgive me if I ask this :- Do people who move closer towards Enlightenment have quicker results of Kamma and Phala (like within a Month or so) and people who are far away from Spirituality and Enlightenment have Longer gap between Karma and Phala?.

Thanks.
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Re: Kamma and Kamma-phala

Postby cooran » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:44 am

Hello I-B.,

Bhikkhu Bodhi has some good Teachings on Kamma - we'll worth studying:

Questions on Kamma
http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebdha057.htm

With metta,
Chris
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---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
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Re: Kamma and Kamma-phala

Postby indian_buddhist » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:17 am

cooran wrote:Hello I-B.,

Bhikkhu Bodhi has some good Teachings on Kamma - we'll worth studying:

Questions on Kamma
http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebdha057.htm

With metta,
Chris


I see :- Apart from truly pathbreaking acts of wholesome or unwholesome kamma(seeds) like Murdering one's parents etc , Kamma if not allowed to ripen in this life/next life would eventually die out.

But my question remains:- Do acts of Greed/Attachment, Hatred and Delusion have their corresponding reactions of the same type.....Simile: acts of Greed will result in loss of money, acts of Hatred results in harm/death, acts of Delusion results in loss of respect, reputation etc?.

I think we do know about realms of existence corresponding to Kammic actions. Question is about kammic reactions(Phala) faced in this very life/next life.
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Re: Kamma and Kamma-phala

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:34 am

indian_buddhist wrote:I am trying to understand Kamma (Seed) and Kamma-phala (fruit of the seed).

My question is :- One Wholesome/Unwholesome/Neither wholesome or unwholesome Kamma has been done in a situation then does the exact situation needs to come into being for that kamma to become ripe?.

To give you a simile:- Suppose for your own selfish reasons you hurt someone who loves you or you leave someone who loves...........The Phala would need the same situation to happen again to ripe?....Like YOU have to fall in love with someone and then that someone will ditch you .

Or the bad Kamma of leaving that girl will be repaid in other forms irrelevant to the original situation (Like you getting Ill or getting a disease for the original bad kamma of ditching a girl who loves you).

The emotional pain caused in such situations is "punishment" enough don't you think?
These workings of Kamma are beyond our understanding.

Your above examples are flawed.
Why?

So many factors to consider...
if you leave a girlfriend, you do so for some reasons.
If your next girlfriend leaves you - would it be for precisely the same reasons?
Of course not.
so the workings of 'kamma' in the first instance, will be completely different to the second situation.... you see?


I hope you understood about my first question.

Yes, but it is a fathomless one, so understanding it is one thing. Responding accurately, is impossible.
it is complete and total utter conjecture...

2. My second question is that :- Buddha has said that it is better that you get the Phala in this life itself because if NOT then your accumulated Kamma which did not get an opportunity to ripen (phala) would have accumulated so much that it could decide your next rebirth (next realm of existence).

My question to you, is this:

How do you know which 'phala' is from this life, and which 'phala' is from a previous existence?
Previous 'phala' is irrelevant.

It is what it is....
Focus on generating positive, beneficial Kamma now, in this life; in that way, the phala is far more likely to be likewise....

I know the Buddha said that it is useless to predict or link Kamma and results.

so, if you consider his words to be wise and educational - why do you not follow his suggestion?

But forgive me if I ask this :- Do people who move closer towards Enlightenment have quicker results of Kamma and Phala (like within a Month or so) and people who are far away from Spirituality and Enlightenment have Longer gap between Karma and Phala?.

If we are not Enlightened, we cannot tell you - we can only guess, as you do.
If we ARE enlightened, you would have to replicate our life completely to see how it's done.
You have your life to lead, so focus on that....

Unconjecturable, is your last question.
Completely without response, that would make your cogitation cease....

:namaste:

Thanks.[/quote]
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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Re: Kamma and Kamma-phala

Postby santa100 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:28 pm

indian_buddhist wrote:But my question remains:- Do acts of Greed/Attachment, Hatred and Delusion have their corresponding reactions of the same type.....Simile: acts of Greed will result in loss of money, acts of Hatred results in harm/death, acts of Delusion results in loss of respect, reputation etc?.

Please see MN 135 for the different kinds of phala corresponding to their kamma. Do notice that although the negative kamma of stealing money will result in something along the line of one's "financial" status in the future, the exact phala and the exact scale of severity are quite dynamic. Typical example was the Angulimala case in MN 86 where Ven. Angulimala due to his sincere practice of the Buddha path was able to receive a much lighter "sentence" due to his previous negative kamma:
MN 86 wrote:"Bear with it, brahman! Bear with it! The fruit of the kamma that would have burned you in hell for many years, many hundreds of years, many thousands of years, you are now experiencing in the here-&-now!"
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