moderate alcohol consumption and wellbeing - jury still out

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
Posts: 16351
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1001
Location: Land of the sleeping gods
Contact:

moderate alcohol consumption and wellbeing - jury still out

Postby Ben » Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:40 pm

Hi all

I thought the following news story would be of interest to some of you.
On the contested causal relationship between 'moderate' alcohol consumption and wellbeing. Apparenty, the jury is still out.
For me personally, I won't be beating a path to the local pub.

Science steps up to the bar

Roni Caryn Rabin

BY NOW, it is a familiar litany. Study after study suggests that alcohol in moderation may promote heart health and even ward off diabetes and dementia. The evidence is so plentiful that some experts consider moderate drinking — about one drink a day for women, about two for men — a central component of a healthy lifestyle. But what if it's all a big mistake?

For some scientists, the question will not go away. No study, these critics say, has ever proved a causal relationship between moderate drinking and lower risk of death, only that the two often go together. It may be that moderate drinking is just something healthy people tend to do, not something that makes people healthy.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/science- ... tml?page=1


Happy reading!

Ben
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia
e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com

User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 5876
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: moderate alcohol consumption and wellbeing - jury still out

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:26 am

That is interesting!
I suppose a social gathering is a good way to let of steam in a productive way, and drink has been involved in social gatherings since 1923 at least ;)
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

User avatar
AdvaitaJ
Posts: 234
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:17 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1
Location: Michigan, USA

Re: moderate alcohol consumption and wellbeing - jury still out

Postby AdvaitaJ » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:44 am

I just put the occasional glass of red wine back on the menu. Reason #1 is my HDL cholesterol is below 40 and there's a study I thought reliable somewhere that states the occasional drink boosts HDL. I exercise a lot and watch what I eat. All the other cholesterol numbers are in the "good" range, but my HDL has remained low. Reason #2 is a recent study of Resveratrol, which originates in red grapes and is naturally concentrated in red wine. The study showed a reduction in the plaque-like substance that leads to dementia, etc in brain tissue.

Regards: AdvaitaJ
The birds have vanished down the sky. Now the last cloud drains away.
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains.
Li Bai

User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
Posts: 16351
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1001
Location: Land of the sleeping gods
Contact:

Re: moderate alcohol consumption and wellbeing - jury still out

Postby Ben » Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:08 am

Hi AdvaitaJ

I think what the article is saying is some of those studies which linked moderate alcohol consumption to health benefits may not be as reliable as once thought.
Personally, I don't think anything could induce me to drink again.
Metta

Ben
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia
e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com

Mawkish1983
Posts: 1175
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:46 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1
Location: Essex, UK

Re: moderate alcohol consumption and wellbeing - jury still out

Postby Mawkish1983 » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:32 am

Ben wrote:Personally, I don't think anything could induce me to drink again.

Mmm, just last night I had the opportunity to go out [and drink] and I'd not been out since October. I was extremely tempted. First, I was telling myself 'I can go out and not drink' (a thought quickly followed by 'but I really fancy a beer'). Then I was thinking 'what is my intention in not drinking? Is not drinking an attachment? Should I drinking moderately as per the middle way'. Then my rational mind [fortunately] kicked in and asked 'why don't I murder a few people in the spirit of moderation... not being attached to the first precept'... a rhetorical question I like to put in my mind to remember just how deleterious drinking alcohol really is.

In the end, knowing I would not have the self-control to go out without drinking, I stayed at home. I don't regret that decision. I still 'fancy a beer', but I don't really want a beer (if that makes sense).

In September I'm going on holiday with my parents, who drink A LOT and are strictly anti-religious (they don't know I am trying to practice theravada and they have had no reason to know yet). Firmly refusing to drink with my parents might cause a lot more dukkha all round than drinking a single pint of beer to shut them up. I don't know, it's something I've not figured out yet. Maybe it's time to 'come out of the closet' to my parents (who, even as I am 25, have said they 'would disown me if I ever became religious').

I'm not sure what the best course of action is. Aaaaaaanyway, I agree with Ben in principle, alcohol ain't [sic] a good thing by any measure.

<smiles sans the smiley>

User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 5876
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: moderate alcohol consumption and wellbeing - jury still out

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:36 am

Personally I think if a particular kind of alcohol is shown to aid a problem we are having, then it is a medicine with a side effect of intoxication which some medicines do have, one small glass used as one small glass not one large or two small glasses for health reasons then it is ok so long as it is used appropriately.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

User avatar
Jechbi
Posts: 1268
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:38 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1
Contact:

Re: moderate alcohol consumption and wellbeing - jury still out

Postby Jechbi » Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:57 pm

Mawkish1983 wrote:'why don't I murder a few people in the spirit of moderation... not being attached to the first precept'

8-)
Mawkish1983 wrote:Firmly refusing to drink with my parents might cause a lot more dukkha all round than drinking a single pint of beer to shut them up.
Try this: When the time comes, just order a mineral water or cola or something. That way you'll have a beverage, too. If they ask why you're not getting a pint, just put your hand on your stomach, wince a little and say, "I better not today." If they press you, say: "Maybe later."

Then, once you have your mineral water, sip it, toast with it, whatever. As long as your bodily motions and demeanor is jocular and you're participating in the social interaction, they'll probably stop noticing that you're not drinking something with alcohol in it. A lack of desire to drink doesn't necessarily have anything to do with religion.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.

Mawkish1983
Posts: 1175
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:46 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1
Location: Essex, UK

Re: moderate alcohol consumption and wellbeing - jury still out

Postby Mawkish1983 » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:07 pm

Jechbi wrote:Try this...

I did, last time (February I think) and they 'smelled/smelt (which one is right? They're both in the dictionary!) a rat'. The questions started, things began to get heated and I was basically forced to have a bottle of beer to calm things down. It's a curious family dynamic, I know.

Sometimes I think it'd be less damaging to just nurse a beer all night. Anyone have any thoughts about this?

User avatar
Thaibebop
Posts: 287
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:37 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6

Re: moderate alcohol consumption and wellbeing - jury still out

Postby Thaibebop » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:12 pm

I've given up drinking completely. I don't need and it isn't healthy. I am much better for it too. After years of useing it I can't begin why anyone would want to. Now, if I could give up fat snacks and learn to work out. :juggling:

User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
Posts: 16351
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1001
Location: Land of the sleeping gods
Contact:

Re: moderate alcohol consumption and wellbeing - jury still out

Postby Ben » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:34 pm

Hi Mawk
I'm sorry to hear about the difficult family dynamic that you are caught in.
If you don't want to, there's nothing wrong with not disclosing your Buddhist faith to your family. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
Perhaps a way to justify your non-drinking is to cite the deleterious health effects of alcohol consumption and suggest that you don't want to compromise your health, especially at this point during your PhD. In the past I have also mentioned the catastrophic effects of drink-driving on the community. It was something that was easy for me to do having worked a number of years in Victoria's No. 1 road-trauma hospital but also because an older brother of mine inadvertently killed himself on the road after a drinking binge some years ago.
Another thing you could do, if you have a taste for high-drama, is to call a spade a spade and tell them that you are a Buddhist. It might provoke an interesting situation but at least it would be out in the open and they could accept it or not accept it. You're 25 now, so its probably about time that they accepted and respected you for who you are, not who they would like you to be.
In my own situation, I just tell people that I don't drink. Its not that unusual anymore so most of the time its no big deal. Sometimes I might get asked 'why' and I'll then tell them that I am a Buddhist. If its a problem for them, its their problem. The monkey stays on their back, not mine.
Metta

Ben
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia
e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com

User avatar
kc2dpt
Posts: 956
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: moderate alcohol consumption and wellbeing - jury still out

Postby kc2dpt » Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:04 pm

Ben wrote:"No study, these critics say, has ever proved a causal relationship between moderate drinking and lower risk of death, only that the two often go together."

In other words, correlation does not imply causation.

Mawkish1983 wrote:The questions started, things began to get heated and I was basically forced to have a bottle of beer to calm things down. It's a curious family dynamic, I know.

Sometimes I think it'd be less damaging to just nurse a beer all night. Anyone have any thoughts about this?

Firmly say you do not want a drink. Do not feel you need to give a reason. If they persist, then leave. No one should force you to drink, not friends and certainly not family. Shame on them.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 14813
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1001
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: moderate alcohol consumption and wellbeing - jury still out

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:28 am

Greetings,

Another interesting one...

Drinking almost halves dementia risk, according to new study
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/ ... 61,00.html

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 20081
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1001

Re: moderate alcohol consumption and wellbeing - jury still out

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:32 am

.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1055
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6
Location: Neuburg/Donau, Germany

Re: moderate alcohol consumption and wellbeing - jury still out

Postby acinteyyo » Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:58 am

tiltbillings wrote:ultimate drunk people compilation

ridiculous and entertaining, let's hope someone learned one's lesson...
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Api cāhaṃ, āvuso, imasmiṃyeva byāmamatte kaḷevare, sasaññimhi samanake lokañca paññāpemi lokasamudayañca lokanirodhañca lokanirodhagāminiñca paṭipadan. (AN4.45)

:anjali:

Moggalana
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:31 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6
Location: Germany

Re: moderate alcohol consumption and wellbeing - jury still out

Postby Moggalana » Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:59 am

Moderate Alcohol Intake and Cancer Incidence in Women

Conclusions: Low to moderate alcohol consumption in women increases the risk of certain cancers. For every additional drink regularly consumed per day, the increase in incidence up to age 75 years per 1000 for women in developed countries is estimated to be about 11 for breast cancer, 1 for cancers of the oral cavity and pharynx, 1 for cancer of the rectum, and 0.7 each for cancers of the esophagus, larynx and liver, giving a total excess of about 15 cancers per 1000 women up to age 75.
Let it come. Let it be. Let it go.


Return to “Lounge”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests