Ven. Nanananda's Nibbana Sermons.

Theravāda in the 21st century - modern applications of ancient wisdom
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Kasina
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Ven. Nanananda's Nibbana Sermons.

Postby Kasina » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:11 am

Nanananda's sermons on Nibbana are just amazing, and I can't help but to share them:

http://www.seeingthroughthenet.net/eng/gen.php?gp=sermons&cat=nn&p=1

Extremely clear, profound exploration into Nibbana and the supramundane on the path. Recommended to anybody.

:anjali:
"This world completely lacks essence;
It trembles in all directions.
I longed to find myself a place
Unscathed — but I could not see it."


Sn 4.15 PTS: Sn 935-951 "Attadanda Sutta: Arming Oneself"

"You will be required to do wrong no matter where you go... This is the curse at work, the curse that feeds on all life..."

Wilbur Mercer in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

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Re: Ven. Nanananda's Nibbana Sermons.

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:45 am


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Re: Ven. Nanananda's Nibbana Sermons.

Postby Kasina » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:17 pm

mikenz66 wrote:Hi Kasina,

Here are some previous discussions, which may be of interest.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2042
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9614
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=15991
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6440
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=288


:anjali:
Mike


Thanks so much Mike! :twothumbsup:
"This world completely lacks essence;
It trembles in all directions.
I longed to find myself a place
Unscathed — but I could not see it."


Sn 4.15 PTS: Sn 935-951 "Attadanda Sutta: Arming Oneself"

"You will be required to do wrong no matter where you go... This is the curse at work, the curse that feeds on all life..."

Wilbur Mercer in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

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Re: Ven. Nanananda's Nibbana Sermons.

Postby Ananda26 » Thu May 08, 2014 3:21 pm

Kasina wrote:Nanananda's sermons on Nibbana are just amazing, and I can't help but to share them:

http://www.seeingthroughthenet.net/eng/gen.php?gp=sermons&cat=nn&p=1

Extremely clear, profound exploration into Nibbana and the supramundane on the path. Recommended to anybody.

:anjali:


Nice selection from the former assistant Pali lecturer in Sri Lanka who decided to become a monk. :bow:
I enjoyed his plenty of quotations from the suttas within his sermons.

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Re: Ven. Nanananda's Nibbana Sermons.

Postby SarathW » Fri May 09, 2014 7:45 am

Kasina wrote:Nanananda's sermons on Nibbana are just amazing, and I can't help but to share them:

http://www.seeingthroughthenet.net/eng/gen.php?gp=sermons&cat=nn&p=1

Extremely clear, profound exploration intero Nibbana and the supramundane on the path. Recommended to anybody.

:anjali:


Thanks.
Recording quality is not the best.
Is the script of this sermon available so I can read it my own time?
:)

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Re: Ven. Nanananda's Nibbana Sermons.

Postby mikenz66 » Fri May 09, 2014 7:57 am


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Re: Ven. Nanananda's Nibbana Sermons.

Postby SarathW » Sat May 10, 2014 1:24 am



Thanks mike. You are wonderful, always!
:thumbsup:

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Re: Ven. Nanananda's Nibbana Sermons.

Postby Ananda26 » Tue May 13, 2014 1:27 pm

Is the script of this sermon available so I can read it my own time?


http://www.seeingthroughthenet.net/files/eng/books/ms/nibbana_the_mind_stilled_I.pdf

Here is a link to one of the books in the series which is also completely available for reading online.

The books can also be found starting with the origianl link.

http://www.seeingthroughthenet.net/eng/gen.php?gp=sermons&cat=nn&p=1

Then click on the menu for books. Then click on Nibbana, the mind stilled.

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Re: Ven. Nanananda's Nibbana Sermons.

Postby SarathW » Tue May 13, 2014 11:44 pm

Thanks
Ananda.

I just finished reading chapter 7 of Mind stilled:
I could not quite worked out what is Ven. Nanananda's position in regard to Viññaa anidassana.
Can someone shed light on this.
P138:
http://www.seeingthroughthenet.net/file ... led_II.pdf

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Re: Ven. Nanananda's Nibbana Sermons.

Postby Ananda26 » Wed May 14, 2014 1:51 pm

SarathW wrote:Thanks
Ananda.

I just finished reading chapter 7 of Mind stilled:
I could not quite worked out what is Ven. Nanananda's position in regard to Viññaa anidassana.
Can someone shed light on this.
P138:
http://www.seeingthroughthenet.net/file ... led_II.pdf


Here is a quote from Long Discourse of the Buddha #11:

498. ‘‘Evañca kho eso, bhikkhu, pañho pucchitabbo –

‘Kattha āpo ca pathavī, tejo vāyo na gādhati;
Kattha dīghañca rassañca, aṇuṃ thūlaṃ subhāsubhaṃ;
Kattha nāmañca rūpañca, asesaṃ uparujjhatī’ti.

499. ‘‘Tatra veyyākaraṇaṃ bhavati –

‘Viññāṇaṃ anidassanaṃ, anantaṃ sabbatopabhaṃ;
Ettha āpo ca pathavī, tejo vāyo na gādhati.

Ettha dīghañca rassañca, aṇuṃ thūlaṃ subhāsubhaṃ;
Ettha nāmañca rūpañca, asesaṃ uparujjhati;
Viññāṇassa nirodhena, etthetaṃ uparujjhatī’ti.

500. Idamavoca bhagavā. Attamano kevaṭṭo gahapatiputto bhagavato bhāsitaṃ abhinandīti.

Kevaṭṭasuttaṃ niṭṭhitaṃ ekādasamaṃ.


Here is a quote from Middle Length Discourse of the Buddha #21

229. ‘‘Seyyathāpi, bhikkhave, puriso āgaccheyya lākhaṃ vā haliddiṃ vā nīlaṃ vā mañjiṭṭhaṃ vā ādāya. So evaṃ vadeyya – ‘ahaṃ imasmiṃ ākāse rūpaṃ likhissāmi, rūpapātubhāvaṃ karissāmī’ti. Taṃ kiṃ maññatha, bhikkhave, api nu so puriso imasmiṃ ākāse rūpaṃ likheyya, rūpapātubhāvaṃ kareyyā’’ti? ‘‘No hetaṃ, bhante’’. ‘‘Taṃ kissa hetu’’? ‘‘Ayañhi, bhante, ākāso arūpī anidassano. Tattha na sukaraṃ rūpaṃ likhituṃ, rūpapātubhāvaṃ kātuṃ; yāvadeva ca pana so puriso kilamathassa vighātassa bhāgī assā’’ti. ‘‘Evameva kho, bhikkhave, pañcime vacanapathā yehi vo pare vadamānā vadeyyuṃ kālena vā akālena vā …pe… ‘na ceva… tadārammaṇañca sabbāvantaṃ lokaṃ ākāsasamena cetasā vipulena mahaggatena appamāṇena averena abyābajjhena pharitvā viharissāmā’ti. Evañhi vo, bhikkhave, sikkhitabbaṃ.


ākāso arūpī anidassano


"space is formless and invisible"

So the Venerable Sir is refering to a consciousness that is not envisioned.

So the use of the word anidassano in MLD#21 clarifies the meaning of anidassano which helps to clarify the meaning in LD#11.

In Long Discourse #11 there was a monk who had visited many devas and Brahma asking about where do the 4 Great Elements: Earth, Water, Heat, and Air cease. Brahma advised him to ask the Buddha, and the Buddha helped him to rephrase his question more properly and gave him the answer. Here is an English translation with that section of the sutta.

"Once, Kevatta, this train of thought arose in the awareness of a certain monk in this very community of monks: 'Where do these four great elements — the earth property, the liquid property, the fire property, and the wind property — cease without remainder?' Then he attained to such a state of concentration that the way leading to the gods appeared in his centered mind. So he approached the gods of the retinue of the Four Great Kings and, on arrival, asked them, 'Friends, where do these four great elements — the earth property, the liquid property, the fire property, and the wind property — cease without remainder?'

"When this was said, the gods of the retinue of the Four Great Kings said to the monk, 'We also don't know where the four great elements... cease without remainder. But there are the Four Great Kings who are higher and more sublime than we. They should know where the four great elements... cease without remainder.'

"So the monk approached the Four Great Kings and, on arrival, asked them, 'Friends, where do these four great elements... cease without remainder?'

"When this was said, the Four Great Kings said to the monk, 'We also don't know where the four great elements... cease without remainder. But there are the gods of the Thirty-three who are higher and more sublime than we. They should know...'

"So the monk approached the gods of the Thirty-three and, on arrival, asked them, 'Friends, where do these four great elements... cease without remainder?'

"When this was said, the gods of the Thirty-three said to the monk, 'We also don't know where the four great elements... cease without remainder. But there is Sakka, the ruler of the gods, who is higher and more sublime than we. He should know... '

"So the monk approached Sakka, the ruler of the gods, and, on arrival, asked him, 'Friend, where do these four great elements... cease without remainder?'

"When this was said, Sakka, the ruler of the gods, said to the monk, 'I also don't know where the four great elements... cease without remainder. But there are the Yama gods who are higher and more sublime than I. They should know...'...

"The Yama gods said, 'We also don't know... But there is the god named Suyama... He should know...'...

"Suyama said, 'I also don't know... But there is the god named Santusita... He should know...'...

"Santusita said, 'I also don't know... But there are the Nimmanarati gods... They should know...'...

"The Nimmanarati gods said, 'We also don't know... But there is the god named Sunimmita... He should know...'...

"Sunimmita said, 'I also don't know... But there are the Paranimmitavasavatti gods... They should know...'...

"The Paranimmitavasavatti gods said, 'We also don't know... But there is the god named Paranimmita Vasavatti... He should know...'...

"So the monk approached the god Vasavatti and, on arrival, asked him, 'Friend, where do these four great elements... cease without remainder?'

"When this was said, the god Vasavatti said to the monk, 'I also don't know where the four great elements... cease without remainder. But there are the gods of the retinue of Brahma who are higher and more sublime than I. They should know where the four great elements... cease without remainder'...

"Then the monk attained to such a state of concentration that the way leading to the gods of the retinue of Brahma appeared in his centered mind. So he approached the gods of the retinue of Brahma and, on arrival, asked them, 'Friends, where do these four great elements — the earth property, the liquid property, the fire property, and the wind property — cease without remainder?'

"When this was said, the gods of the retinue of Brahma said to the monk, 'We also don't know where the four great elements... cease without remainder. But there is Brahma, the Great Brahma, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Sovereign Lord, the Maker, Creator, Chief, Appointer and Ruler, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be. He is higher and more sublime than we. He should know where the four great elements... cease without remainder.'

"'But where, friends, is the Great Brahma now?'

"'Monk, we also don't know where Brahma is or in what way Brahma is. But when signs appear, light shines forth, and a radiance appears, Brahma will appear. For these are the portents of Brahma's appearance: light shines forth and a radiance appears.'

"Then it was not long before Brahma appeared.

"So the monk approached the Great Brahma and, on arrival, said, 'Friend, where do these four great elements — the earth property, the liquid property, the fire property, and the wind property — cease without remainder?'

"When this was said, the Great Brahma said to the monk, 'I, monk, am Brahma, the Great Brahma, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Sovereign Lord, the Maker, Creator, Chief, Appointer and Ruler, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be.'

A second time, the monk said to the Great Brahma, 'Friend, I didn't ask you if you were Brahma, the Great Brahma, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Sovereign Lord, the Maker, Creator, Chief, Appointer and Ruler, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be. I asked you where these four great elements — the earth property, the liquid property, the fire property, and the wind property — cease without remainder.'

"A second time, the Great Brahma said to the monk, 'I, monk, am Brahma, the Great Brahma, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Sovereign Lord, the Maker, Creator, Chief, Appointer and Ruler, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be.'

"A third time, the monk said to the Great Brahma, 'Friend, I didn't ask you if you were Brahma, the Great Brahma, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Sovereign Lord, the Maker, Creator, Chief, Appointer and Ruler, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be. I asked you where these four great elements — the earth property, the liquid property, the fire property, and the wind property — cease without remainder.'

"Then the Great Brahma, taking the monk by the arm and leading him off to one side, said to him, 'These gods of the retinue of Brahma believe, "There is nothing that the Great Brahma does not know. There is nothing that the Great Brahma does not see. There is nothing of which the Great Brahma is unaware. There is nothing that the Great Brahma has not realized." That is why I did not say in their presence that I, too, don't know where the four great elements... cease without remainder. So you have acted wrongly, acted incorrectly, in bypassing the Blessed One in search of an answer to this question elsewhere. Go right back to the Blessed One and, on arrival, ask him this question. However he answers it, you should take it to heart.'

"Then — just as a strong man might extend his flexed arm or flex his extended arm — the monk disappeared from the Brahma world and immediately appeared in front of me. Having bowed down to me, he sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to me, 'Lord, where do these four great elements — the earth property, the liquid property, the fire property, and the wind property — cease without remainder?'

"When this was said, I said to him,[2] 'Once, monk, some sea-faring merchants took a shore-sighting bird and set sail in their ship. When they could not see the shore, they released the shore-sighting bird. It flew to the east, south, west, north, straight up, and to all the intermediate points of the compass. If it saw the shore in any direction, it flew there. If it did not see the shore in any direction, it returned right back to the ship. In the same way, monk, having gone as far as the Brahma world in search of an answer to your question, you have come right back to my presence.

"'Your question should not be phrased in this way: Where do these four great elements — the earth property, the liquid property, the fire property, and the wind property — cease without remainder? Instead, it should be phrased like this:


Where do water, earth, fire, & wind
find no footing?
Where are long & short,
coarse & fine,
fair & foul,
name & form
wholly uprooted?
"'And the answer to that is:


Consciousness without feature,[1]
without end,
luminous all around:
Here water, earth, fire, & wind
have no footing.
Here long & short
coarse & fine
fair & foul
name & form
are all uprooted.
With the cessation of [the activity of] consciousness
this is all uprooted.'"
That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, Kevatta the householder delighted in the Blessed One's words.


With the quest for Nibbana, there is the process of gaining non-obsession with the 5 aggregates. One gains non-obsession with form which is composed of the 4 great elements: earth, water, heat, and air. One also gains non-obsession with consciousness.

When the Arahant has gained Nibbana, the 5 aggregates do not gain a footing leading to rebirth, and in this section of the Venerable Sir's sermon one can see the freedom from obsesssion with form and the freedom from obsession with consciousness is the quest which the monk should seek. This is poetically clarified by the Buddha in LD#11 as with the cessation of mentality and form these things can not gain any kind of footing in the Arahant that would lead to rebirth.

Here is a sutta with some similarity to the section from LD#11

AN 4.45
Rohitassa Sutta: To Rohitassa

This sutta also appears at SN 2.26
On one occasion the Blessed One was staying near Savatthi, in Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's monastery. Then Rohitassa, the son of a deva, in the far extreme of the night, his extreme radiance lighting up the entirety of Jeta's Grove, went to the Blessed One. On arrival, having bowed down to the Blessed One, he stood to one side. As he was standing there he said to the Blessed One: "Is it possible, lord, by traveling, to know or see or reach a far end of the cosmos where one does not take birth, age, die, pass away or reappear?"

"I tell you, friend, that it is not possible by traveling to know or see or reach a far end of the cosmos where one does not take birth, age, die, pass away, or reappear."

"It is amazing, lord, and awesome, how well that has been said by the Blessed One: 'I tell you, friend, that it is not possible by traveling to know or see or reach a far end of the cosmos where one does not take birth, age, die, pass away, or reappear.' Once I was a seer named Rohitassa, a student of Bhoja, a powerful sky-walker. My speed was as fast as that of a strong archer — well-trained, a practiced hand, a practiced sharp-shooter — shooting a light arrow across the shadow of a palm tree. My stride stretched as far as the east sea is from the west. To me, endowed with such speed, such a stride, there came the desire: 'I will go traveling to the end of the cosmos.' I — with a one-hundred year life, a one-hundred year span — spent one hundred years traveling — apart from the time spent on eating, drinking, chewing & tasting, urinating & defecating, and sleeping to fight off weariness — but without reaching the end of the cosmos I died along the way. So it is amazing, lord, and awesome, how well that has been said by the Blessed One: 'I tell you, friend, that it is not possible by traveling to know or see or reach a far end of the cosmos where one does not take birth, age, die, pass away, or reappear.'"

[When this was said, the Blessed One responded:] "I tell you, friend, that it is not possible by traveling to know or see or reach a far end of the cosmos where one does not take birth, age, die, pass away, or reappear. But at the same time, I tell you that there is no making an end of suffering & stress without reaching the end of the cosmos. Yet it is just within this fathom-long body, with its perception & intellect, that I declare that there is the cosmos, the origination of the cosmos, the cessation of the cosmos, and the path of practice leading to the cessation of the cosmos."


It's not to be reached by traveling,
the end of the cosmos —
regardless.
And it's not without reaching
the end of the cosmos
that there is release
from suffering & stress.

So, truly, the wise one,
an expert with regard to the cosmos,
a knower of the end of the cosmos,
having fulfilled the holy life,
calmed,
knowing the cosmos' end,
doesn't long for this cosmos
or for any other.


So instead of travelling to find the cessation of birth, ageing, and death, one finds it through study of Buddha's teaching and meditation.

When one scrutinizes the context of the quote selections more deeply, there is also a meditative reference to be found.

Here are the 7 stations of consciousness and 2 bases from Long Discourse #15

Seven Stations of Consciousness
"Ananda, there are these seven stations of consciousness and two spheres. Which seven?

"There are beings with diversity of body and diversity of perception, such as human beings, some devas, and some beings in the lower realms. This is the first station of consciousness.

"There are beings with diversity of body and singularity of perception, such as the devas of the Brahma hosts generated by the first [jhana] and some beings in the four realms of deprivation. This is the second station of consciousness. [2]

"There are beings with singularity of body and diversity of perception, such as the Radiant Devas. This is the third station of consciousness.

"There are beings with singularity of body and singularity of perception, such as the Beautifully Lustrous Devas. This is the fourth station of consciousness.

"There are beings who,with the complete transcending of perceptions of [physical] form, with the disappearance of perceptions of resistance, and not heeding perceptions of diversity, [perceiving,] 'Infinite space,' arrive at the dimension of the infinitude of space. This is the fifth station of consciousness.

"There are beings who, with the complete transcending of the dimension of the infinitude of space, [perceiving,] 'Infinite consciousness,' arrive at the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness. This is the sixth station of consciousness.

"There are beings who, with the complete transcending of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, [perceiving,] 'There is nothing,' arrive at the dimension of nothingness. This is the seventh station of consciousness.

"The dimension of non-percipient beings and, second, the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception. [These are the two spheres.]


It is not by travelling in the body that one is reborn in the formless heavens such as the base of space. Rather, that may be gained by meditation. With the complete surmounting of perception of form, with the disappearence of perception of aversion, with non-attention to perception of diversity considering space is limitless one attains to the base of space. It is possisble that one who meditates a lot on the base of space on the dissolution of the body after death may be reborn in the base of space formless heaven.

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Re: Ven. Nanananda's Nibbana Sermons.

Postby SarathW » Fri May 16, 2014 12:39 am

Thanks Ananda
Ven. Nanananda is using the simile Weaving Rope in his sermons in few occasions.
Many of you are may not be familiar with how villagers make ropes in Sri Lanka.
Please see this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFGmua-X9Jo

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Re: Ven. Nanananda's Nibbana Sermons.

Postby SarathW » Mon May 19, 2014 2:01 am

"The nature of consciousness in general is to abide or dwell in.
That non-manifestative consciousness, anidassana viññaa, however,
has got rid of the tendency to abide or dwell in."

P308:
http://www.seeingthroughthenet.net/file ... ed_III.pdf
=============

Is Ven. Nanananda talking here about before Parinibbana?


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