Key component missing? Does the wheel turn smoothly without?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.

Re: Key component missing? Does the wheel turn smoothly with

Postby fraaJad » Mon May 12, 2014 7:51 pm

VinceField wrote: From what I have understood from Bhante's teachings, the more I allow these thoughts to exist without attachment and the more I let them go in my meditations, the less they will arise and the more they will dissolve until they no longer exist. I understand this process as a progressive release of attachment from the hinderance- from these memories and regrets (and whatever else may arise). I was wondering if anyone has any further thoughts or experience with this process.


Hi Vince,

Definitely. It is just restlessness -- don't analyze it too much. Thoughts are just thoughts, and you can 6R those. I know it's hard to let go of thinking -- even thinking about meditation!! :tantrum:
But that is the beauty of the 6Rs. They apply to *everything* that comes up. Thoughts, pain, sleepiness -- just keep 6Ring until your meditation timer goes off. (And even after that. ;))

Just curious, have you considered switching to metta? I'm not personally condoning it, since I've never tried doing the breath. But, Bhante V does recommend metta to most of his students.

:candle:
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Re: Key component missing? Does the wheel turn smoothly with

Postby 2pennyworth » Mon May 12, 2014 10:53 pm

Vince,

fraaJad wrote:Just curious, have you considered switching to metta? I'm not personally condoning it, since I've never tried doing the breath. But, Bhante V does recommend metta to most of his students.


The seeds of hindrances are sown by lack of applying mindfulness in day-to-day life (easier said than done! takes persistence, I run afoul constantly!), not helped by not sticking to the precepts. (No-one's perfect, Buddha excepted!). We create negative karma, we need to lessen that as much as possible for the benefit of others by creating positive karma.

But you should be kinder to yourself; first 10 mins of metta practice you generate feelings of loving-kindness directed towards yourself before directing it to a chosen spiritual friend. Feelings of unworthiness will hinder you, just as feelings of "I am awesome!" will.

So, I'd second fraaJad's recommendation.

This is also a very powerful phrase to remember: "This is not mine, I am not this, this is not myself".

:anjali:
Last edited by 2pennyworth on Mon May 12, 2014 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“We cling to our own point of view, as though everything depended on it. Yet our opinions have no permanence; like autumn and winter, they gradually pass away.” ~ Chuang Tzu
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Re: Key component missing? Does the wheel turn smoothly with

Postby 2pennyworth » Mon May 12, 2014 11:06 pm

I also recommend studying the 'Wheel of Life':

http://www.buddhanet.net/wheel2.htm

:anjali:
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Re: Key component missing? Does the wheel turn smoothly with

Postby VinceField » Tue May 13, 2014 12:21 am

From my understanding of Bhante's teachings, one method is to concentrate on breathing and relaxing, and another technique is metta/loving-kindness.

What do you see as the advantages and disadvantages of each technique?
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Re: Key component missing? Does the wheel turn smoothly with

Postby 2pennyworth » Tue May 13, 2014 12:50 am

VinceField wrote:From my understanding of Bhante's teachings, one method is to concentrate on breathing and relaxing, and another technique is metta/loving-kindness.

What do you see as the advantages and disadvantages of each technique?


Put quite simply, I very much underestimated the power of loving kindness. Think about it, what better way to overcome the unwholesome than genuine loving kindness?Hate will not be overcome by hate, but by love. Eventually leading to dispassion and equanimity as we see these things clearly as impersonal through wisdom.
“We cling to our own point of view, as though everything depended on it. Yet our opinions have no permanence; like autumn and winter, they gradually pass away.” ~ Chuang Tzu
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Re: Key component missing? Does the wheel turn smoothly with

Postby VinceField » Tue May 13, 2014 1:08 am

I suppose I feel like creating the feeling of loving kindness is more of a fabrication than an experience of reality, a fabrication that perhaps can interfere with certain natural processes that would otherwise be encountered during mindfulness meditation. This is my initial thought after an intense period of vipassana meditation studies. I have yet to read or hear Bhante's teachings of metta so I will look into this and perhaps gain a better understanding.
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Re: Key component missing? Does the wheel turn smoothly with

Postby 2pennyworth » Tue May 13, 2014 1:12 am

VinceField wrote:I suppose I feel like creating the feeling of loving kindness is more of a fabrication than an experience of reality, a fabrication that perhaps can interfere with certain natural processes that would otherwise be encountered during mindfulness meditation. This is my initial thought after an intense period of vipassana meditation studies. I have yet to read or hear Bhante's teachings of metta so I will look into this and perhaps gain a better understanding.


That's what I thought too. Just give it a go for a week, pick a spiritual friend (male, non family member, someone you know personally who is alive). And work from the heart.
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Re: Key component missing? Does the wheel turn smoothly with

Postby VinceField » Tue May 13, 2014 1:51 am

Will do. :bow:

Do you exclusively meditate on loving kindness or do you do breath relaxation too? I'm also curious as to when you switched to metta, what you were doing before metta, and what differences you saw in your development after the switch.

Thanks, your advice is very much appreciated! :thanks:
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Re: Key component missing? Does the wheel turn smoothly with

Postby 2pennyworth » Tue May 13, 2014 2:26 am

VinceField wrote:Will do. :bow:

Do you exclusively meditate on loving kindness or do you do breath relaxation too? I'm also curious as to when you switched to metta, what you were doing before metta, and what differences you saw in your development after the switch.

Thanks, your advice is very much appreciated! :thanks:


Before I integrated loving kindness meditation into my "arsenal"! I practiced mindfulness of breath, open awareness and noting practice. It's good do do a bit of everything in my opinion, try stuff out, as they all have their different strengths and may be more suitable at different times. Sometimes a fresh angle can provide new insight, stops you from being automatic and complacent. I haven't been doing loving kindness for very long at all, only a few months! But im lucky in that i have a lot of time and secluded peace and quiet to dedicate to practice. I found it to be v effective, especially in terms of lessening the pain experienced with my reoccuring illness. Like I say, I just didn't quite appreciate the power of loving kindness. (Sounds cheesy, but there it is) I'll PM you with more detail later, gotta go now!

:anjali:

EDIT: but its important to really get into one practice for a period and devote time to it. IMO
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