Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist »

Lazy_eye wrote:.....
Keep in mind also that most people are not reborn into the human realm after death; in fact, it can take many eons before one takes human form again. From the Chiggala Sutta:
"Monks, suppose that this great earth were totally covered with water, and a man were to toss a yoke with a single hole there. A wind from the east would push it west, a wind from the west would push it east. A wind from the north would push it south, a wind from the south would push it north. And suppose a blind sea-turtle were there. It would come to the surface once every one hundred years. Now what do you think: would that blind sea-turtle, coming to the surface once every one hundred years, stick his neck into the yoke with a single hole?"

"It would be a sheer coincidence, lord, that the blind sea-turtle, coming to the surface once every one hundred years, would stick his neck into the yoke with a single hole."

"It's likewise a sheer coincidence that one obtains the human state.
So a scientific test would have to be capable of finding that turtle.

If you're interested in resolving for yourself whether rebirth is plausible, it may be more fruitful to look at the nature of consciousness. If consciousness has a material cause, then rebirth is impossible; if it does not have a material cause, rebirth is not only possible but likely.
However, the same sutta goes on to say:
"It's likewise a sheer coincidence that one obtains the human state. It's likewise a sheer coincidence that a Tathagata, worthy & rightly self-awakened, arises in the world. It's likewise a sheer coincidence that a doctrine & discipline expounded by a Tathagata appears in the world. Now, this human state has been obtained. A Tathagata, worthy & rightly self-awakened, has arisen in the world. A doctrine & discipline expounded by a Tathagata appears in the world.

"Therefore your duty is the contemplation, 'This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress.' Your duty is the contemplation, 'This is the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress.'"
I take this to mean: You are fortunate to find yourselves reborn into the Human realm.

You are doubly fortunate to find yourselves reborn in this realm as I occupy it.

you are triply fortunate to find yourselves reborn into this realm, where my Dhamma is being expounded.

Therefore, concentrate on what is Important: The 4 Noble Truths.
Focus on that, for only this way, lies liberation from ceaseless Samsara and re-birth.

:namaste:
Last edited by TheNoBSBuddhist on Fri May 23, 2014 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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2pennyworth
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by 2pennyworth »

I think it might be worth also pointing out that in terms of mind moments, rebirth into one of the six realms of existence refers to mind states, like being driven by desire and want for more, or necessity , or suffering in hell realm due to past regtetful actions, for example. The optimum realms for attaining nibbana are the "human" and "deva realms", I believe.
“We cling to our own point of view, as though everything depended on it. Yet our opinions have no permanence; like autumn and winter, they gradually pass away.” ~ Chuang Tzu
beeblebrox
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by beeblebrox »

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:
"It's likewise a sheer coincidence that one obtains the human state. It's likewise a sheer coincidence that a Tathagata, worthy & rightly self-awakened, arises in the world. It's likewise a sheer coincidence that a doctrine & discipline expounded by a Tathagata appears in the world. Now, this human state has been obtained. A Tathagata, worthy & rightly self-awakened, has arisen in the world. A doctrine & discipline expounded by a Tathagata appears in the world.

"Therefore your duty is the contemplation, 'This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress.' Your duty is the contemplation, 'This is the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress.'"
I take this to mean: You are fortunate to find yourselves reborn into the Human realm.

You are doubly fortunate to find yourselves reborn in this realm as I occupy it.

you are triply fortunate to find yourselves reborn into this realm, where my Dhamma is being expounded.

Therefore, concentrate on what is Important: The 4 Noble Truths.
Focus on that, for only this way, lies liberation from ceaseless Samsara and re-birth.
Hi NoBSBuddhist,

I think it is significant that the Buddha didn't use personal pronoun in what was quoted.

In any case, I think rebirth is one of the keys in understanding the Buddha's teachings... so it is a part of practice (for each person) to try parse that into something which is useful for liberation.

:anjali:
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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist »

I realise he didn't use the personal pronoun, which is why I wrote "I take this to mean"... and not, "What the He/the Buddha meant was...."

Thank you for noticing.... :sage:

:namaste:
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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lyndon taylor
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by lyndon taylor »

Basically short of true enlightenment, 99.99% of us are going to be reborn or reincarnated, if you believe rebirth is nothing and not real then thats what you have to look forward to, nothing.......
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
thelotuseffect
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by thelotuseffect »

lyndon taylor wrote:if you believe rebirth is nothing and not real then thats what you have to look forward to, nothing.......
... Jhana? Nothing is a relief. Not believing in rebirth just results in more rebirth after death.
beeblebrox
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by beeblebrox »

Hi Lotus Effect,

What I took to be Lyndon's point was that this person would have nothing to look forward to... which seems to include finding the liberation.

:anjali:
Last edited by beeblebrox on Fri May 23, 2014 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mkoll
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by Mkoll »

someguysomeguy wrote:The debate about rebirth is going on for a while.

While we cannot say rebirth is not a part of Buddhism since the entire basis of Buddhist philosophy is Samsara and breaking away from Samsara , there should be some conclusive evidence for it.

I dont like research by Ian stevenson etc because those are based on flimsy grounds (like evidence from children etc)...

If we go into the literature, Buddha says that Rebirth can be seen in the 4th Jhana . Has anyone in this forum seen rebirth or does anyone know of any Buddhist Monk to have seen rebirth?.
No, I've never seen rebirth. I agree with what Lazy Eye said about the lack of sciene surrounding rebirth. I don't think there will ever be a scientific theory backed up by falsifiable evidence about rebirth. It's something you either choose to have faith in or not. Some people call themselves Buddhists and believe in rebirth and some do not. Your call.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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Sokehi
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by Sokehi »

suwapan wrote:
someguysomeguy wrote:
Has anyone in this forum seen rebirth or does anyone know of any Buddhist Monk to have seen rebirth?.
Has anyone seen the wind?
Very wise :anjali:
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

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Sokehi
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by Sokehi »

piotr wrote:Hi,
TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:Well if it is I who has offended, albeit unwittingly and unintentionally, I apologise.
It's not you. I find it offensive when someone asks legitimate question and instead of proper answer he/she receives preaching about his lack of confidence.
I had the same impression
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

https://www.youtube.com/user/Repeataarrr
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2pennyworth
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by 2pennyworth »

Endless, perpetual rounds of rebirth sounds pretty nightmarish to me, particularly the lower realms of existence. But impermance offers relief. At least the hell realm isn't permanent; for eternity. And the possibility of liberation is even more of a potential relief. (Fire unbound, or fire blown out?) Phew!
“We cling to our own point of view, as though everything depended on it. Yet our opinions have no permanence; like autumn and winter, they gradually pass away.” ~ Chuang Tzu
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lyndon taylor
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by lyndon taylor »

thelotuseffect wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:if you believe rebirth is nothing and not real then that's what you have to look forward to, nothing.......
... Jhana? Nothing is a relief. Not believing in rebirth just results in more rebirth after death.
I'm pretty sure if death is the end of it all, and only nothing afterwards, there is no jhana to experience in nothing, so you still have nothing to look forward to but what you have left in this life, which to me, personally, would be a bit disappointing, not to mention too final!!!

Jhana only exists if there is someone to experience it, if no one is left to experience it, there is no jhana, no parinibbana for that matter if I interpret it properly.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
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purple planet
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by purple planet »

two things i just watched this so i will contribute :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVjuK9u2UAY - and also there is a case of a women who remembers she was ann-frank - this two cases are the best ones i remember

personally i tend to believe it because other stuff about buddhism seem to be true - not sure but i think im 80% convinced there are reincarnations - and im also very sure that there is a big amount of fake claims for reincarnation whether its on purpose or whether its just an illusion in the story tellers mind
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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist »

so.... how would you personally tell fake from real?
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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purple planet
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by purple planet »

so.... how would you personally tell fake from real?


:embarassed: well i thought about it after writing it (even while) - and it is a false (fake) claim by me

you cant be sure that its a fake claim - and even if there are signs like some kid claiming to be a reincarnation of someone from a family of a rich widow - you cant tell if its lying

i cant remember now but i do remember thinking that some stories must be fake cause lots of details seem too "fake" for me - but honestly even if it a very clear case you can never know if its fake for sure
and im also very sure that there is a big amount of fake claims for reincarnation whether its on purpose or whether its just an illusion in the story tellers mind


so i take it back - for two reasons :

1 . i cant tell if a story is fake for sure

2 . even if i heard of 10-20 stories i think they're fake that still dosnt say that all the other stories i didnt hear are true
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