Wat Dhammakaya

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suwapan
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by suwapan »

GrahamR wrote:Dear friends,

Is anyone familiar with Wat Dhammakaya in Thailand or it's off shoots worldwide, including either of the two in the UK, I noticed it also has DMC TV, which looks quite interesting.

I have heard mixed reports about the temple and it's web site appears to be, well eh, rather comercial.

Does anyone have a first hand opinion please?

With metta,

Graham
Dear Graham,

AVOID them!

I'm a Thai. I've seen their activities for years. I know people who attended them. I know followers who have turned away. They are huge number of reports and stories that will sadden real Buddhists. They run a commercial establishment under the cloak of Buddhism, distorting the teachings for money and political power. They want to dominate all the Wats in Thailand, starting with those located in prime city areas to large estates in the provinces, by slapping these Wats with substantial financial aids, both for the establishments and the abbots. They have very rich supporters, our exiled criminal ex-premier Thaksin is one of them. But I can't tell you who is its number one backer because I might be put into jail.

The marketing ploys they used to lure donations are many. They use young, handsome monks to sit upfront so the rich widows and housewives who have paid to be in the front rows can drool over the monks. They have taught followers to "reserve" places in the six heavenly planes depending on the levels of donations. This is not only a lie, but it also induced donations with Tanha, which can lead followers to be reborn crippled. The abbot have conned many followers by channeling donations for temple expansion into his personal accounts, therefore, falling short of his promise to start construction by the committed date. They teach that Nibbana is a physical place where individuals may meet the Buddhas and Arahants.

Wat Dhammakaya is a hellish place in my opinion. It's infiltrating into every aspects of Thai Buddhism. Like the Thaksin regime where money are used to corrupt people, Wat Dhammakaya is following in the same foot steps.
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Kumara
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Kumara »

Hi, suwapan. Glad to see a contribution from a Thai.

Can you get former members or relatives of members to post their stories here? Some of the people here (and elsewhere) needs more info to be convinced about the danger of Dhammakaya.
suwapan
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by suwapan »

Kumara,
I'm not sure if I can convince any of them to write firstly, in English, and secondly, in an international Forum. They are not the "international" type of people. Most of them are elderlies and have spent quite some time with Wat Dhammakaya before their eyes were "opened." By then, they have given a lot of their resources already. Most of them are in fact embarrassed to talk bout it. So stories are given to close friends and relatives. In fact, one of my Abhidhamma teachers went to investigate himself, acquainting with all their false teachings. He calls Wat Dhammakaya, the "Wat Flying Saucer" because one of its structure looks like one. Anyway, I'll see what I can do.
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Kumara
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Kumara »

suwapan wrote:Kumara,
I'm not sure if I can convince any of them to write firstly, in English, and secondly, in an international Forum. They are not the "international" type of people. Most of them are elderlies and have spent quite some time with Wat Dhammakaya before their eyes were "opened." By then, they have given a lot of their resources already. Most of them are in fact embarrassed to talk bout it. So stories are given to close friends and relatives. In fact, one of my Abhidhamma teachers went to investigate himself, acquainting with all their false teachings. He calls Wat Dhammakaya, the "Wat Flying Saucer" because one of its structure looks like one. Anyway, I'll see what I can do.
I fully understand that. You just need to talk with them and record what they say. Better to put it in first person, rather than as reported speech. They write through you. Hope you understand what I mean. If not, PM me. We need personal stories to move people. Sadhu for your effort.
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pilgrim
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by pilgrim »

Its quite clear there that most ppl here in DW outright reject Dhammakaya. To be exact, we are referring to Wat Phra Dhammakaya and its legal body the Dhammakaya Foundation.

However, what is the opinion of ppl here regarding other organisations that share the same ancestry and meditation technique but are not part of Wat Phra Dhammakaya and Dhammakaya Foundation? One of them is the Wat Luang Phor Sodh Dhammakayaram. Their website http://www.dhammacenter.org/ is down today but there is some information here.
http://meditation-centers.blogspot.com/ ... yaram.html

Societies affiliated with this sub-group have recently also been started outside Thailand.
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Sokehi
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Sokehi »

pilgrim wrote:Its quite clear there that most ppl here in DW outright reject Dhammakaya. To be exact, we are referring to Wat Phra Dhammakaya and its legal body the Dhammakaya Foundation.

However, what is the opinion of ppl here regarding other organisations that share the same ancestry and meditation technique but are not part of Wat Phra Dhammakaya and Dhammakaya Foundation? One of them is the Wat Luang Phor Sodh Dhammakayaram. Their website http://www.dhammacenter.org/ is down today but there is some information here.
http://meditation-centers.blogspot.com/ ... yaram.html

Societies affiliated with this sub-group have recently also been started outside Thailand.
Thank you for this information! :candle:
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

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jameswang
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Sangha Theravada Indonesia Public Statement on Dhammakaya

Post by jameswang »

Sangha Theravada Indonesia made a public statement on Dhammakaya end of last year, shown in this news piece: [Indonesian] http://berita.bhagavant.com/2013/12/30/ ... akaya.html

English translation: http://patriasumut.or.id/news/sangha-th ... dhammakaya
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Sokehi
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Re: Sangha Theravada Indonesia Public Statement on Dhammakay

Post by Sokehi »

jameswang wrote:Sangha Theravada Indonesia made a public statement on Dhammakaya end of last year, shown in this news piece: [Indonesian] http://berita.bhagavant.com/2013/12/30/ ... akaya.html

English translation: http://patriasumut.or.id/news/sangha-th ... dhammakaya
Your link to the english translation is a bid damaged :anjali:
http://patriasumut.or.id/news/sangha-th ... dhammakaya
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

https://www.youtube.com/user/Repeataarrr
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Kumara
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Kumara »

pilgrim wrote:Its quite clear there that most ppl here in DW outright reject Dhammakaya. To be exact, we are referring to Wat Phra Dhammakaya and its legal body the Dhammakaya Foundation.

However, what is the opinion of ppl here regarding other organisations that share the same ancestry and meditation technique but are not part of Wat Phra Dhammakaya and Dhammakaya Foundation? One of them is the Wat Luang Phor Sodh Dhammakayaram. Their website http://www.dhammacenter.org/ is down today but there is some information here.
http://meditation-centers.blogspot.com/ ... yaram.html

Societies affiliated with this sub-group have recently also been started outside Thailand.
As I've mentioned earlier, a split has occurred. According to inside info, the Dk group has divided according to personalities the members look up to: Luang Phor Sodh, Khoon Yai Chand, or Dhammajayo/Thammachayo.

Yes, there's now one of Wat Luang Phor Sodh Dhammakayaram in KL, Malaysia now. It's called Bodhi Citta. (As I don't want to increase their google ranking, I'm not including the link.) The practice is "classical Dhammakaya".

Strangely, they all tend to use traditional Mahayana terms. Years ago, I was told by Aj Sujato of their Mahayana influence. Their leaders seems mostly Chinese btw. I suppose there's a connection.
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Kumara
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Re: Sangha Theravada Indonesia Public Statement on Dhammakay

Post by Kumara »

jameswang wrote:Sangha Theravada Indonesia made a public statement on Dhammakaya end of last year, shown in this news piece: [Indonesian] http://berita.bhagavant.com/2013/12/30/ ... akaya.html

English translation: http://patriasumut.or.id/news/sangha-th ... dhammakaya
I've seen this one. Like to clarify that STI only made a short statement, which doesn't say most of the things in the article. Here's my translation:
SANGHA THERAVADA INDONESIA
STATEMENT ON DHARMAKAYA TEACHINGS
Regarding the arrival of Dharmakaya teachings
in the midst of our society.
Sangha Theravada Indonesia states that it does not
in any way cooperate with Dharmakaya.
May the Triple Gem always protect.
I think it's brilliant. It avoids saying that Dk is bad or wrong, which might lead to lawsuits. It doesn't say anything at all that might provoke Dk to drag STI into legal hell. It only says that STI does not cooperate with Dk. And that's enough to send a wave throughout the Indonesian Buddhist community to take heed against the new arrival. Brilliant.
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Kumara
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Kumara »

Something I stumbled upon:
The movement, centered on Wat Thammakaai in Pathumthani province, north of Bangkok, is led by Phra Thammachayo who "describes himself in his self-styled hagiography as the Buddha reincarnate and peace messenger sent to save the world from the calamities wrought by the evil forces of late modernity" (p. 42). Although Phra Thammachayo was attacked by the highly respected theologian, PhraPrayut Payutto, for what Payutto deemed were heretical deviations from Buddhist teachings—especially for Thammachayo's advocacy of attaining ultimate salvation through a shortcut centered on the practice of the technique of visualization of the "body" of the dhamma (the meaning of Thammakaai)—the powerful backers of Thammachayo ensured that the leadership of the establishment sangha did not pursue any heresy charge. Thammachayo was, however, found to have mismanaged the huge endowments of Thammakaai and had to (at least temporarily) step down as the abbot of the main temple-monastery.

Taylor sees Thammakaai as appealing to the Thai bourgeoisie through a "consumerist interpretation" of Buddhist doctrine. "The more money donated to the monastery the better the chances of accruing direct (spiritual) merit, which will in turn produce greater (material) benefits in the present and future lives" (59). The donations have made possible the creation of Wat Thammakaai, a "fantasy place", a "simulated mirrored reality, an imaginary world of tomorrow, situated here and now" (53).
Extracted from a book review by Charles Keyes, Professor Emeritus of Anthropology and International Studies, University of Washington on Buddhism and Postmodern Imaginings in Thailand: The Religiosity of Urban Space. By James Taylor. Farnham, Surrey and Burlington, Vermont: Ashgate, 2008, vii + 244 pages, ISBN 978-0-7546-6247-1 (hardcover) £55.00. (http://www.globalbuddhism.org/10/keyes09.htm)
plwk
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Re: Sangha Theravada Indonesia Public Statement on Dhammakay

Post by plwk »

Sangha Theravada Indonesia made a public statement on Dhammakaya end of last year, shown in this news piece: [Indonesian] http://berita.bhagavant.com/2013/12/30/ ... akaya.html

English translation: http://patriasumut.or.id/news/sangha-th ... dhammakaya
I've seen this one. Like to clarify that STI only made a short statement, which doesn't say most of the things in the article. Here's my translation:
SANGHA THERAVADA INDONESIA
STATEMENT ON DHARMAKAYA TEACHINGS
Regarding the arrival of Dharmakaya teachings
in the midst of our society.
Sangha Theravada Indonesia states that it does not
in any way cooperate with Dharmakaya.
May the Triple Gem always protect.
I think it's brilliant. It avoids saying that Dk is bad or wrong, which might lead to lawsuits. It doesn't say anything at all that might provoke Dk to drag STI into legal hell. It only says that STI does not cooperate with Dk. And that's enough to send a wave throughout the Indonesian Buddhist community to take heed against the new arrival. Brilliant.
When this was posted by the Theravada Buddhist Council of Malaysia on their Facebook page, I left a comment for them to highlight to the Indonesian brethren on the crucial importance of correcting their spelling when highlighting on a targeted organisation or otherwise, are they referring to this or that?
Because I cannot imagine what His Eminence Dr Trungram Gyaltrul Rinpoche and his organisation has to do with all these...

And yes, in this year's State level Vesak Day celebration in Malaysia, I noticed that Dhammakaya made themselves quite visible with all of their banners which portrayed the Buddha's life with their signature Buddhist artwork and some other stuff at the lounge area...I am unsure if that row of Bhikkhus with bright orange robes facing the main stage are their people as well...
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pilgrim
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by pilgrim »

Kumara wrote: As I've mentioned earlier, a split has occurred. According to inside info, the Dk group has divided according to personalities the members look up to: Luang Phor Sodh, Khoon Yai Chand, or Dhammajayo/Thammachayo.

Yes, there's now one of Wat Luang Phor Sodh Dhammakayaram in KL, Malaysia now. It's called Bodhi Citta. (As I don't want to increase their google ranking, I'm not including the link.) The practice is "classical Dhammakaya".

Strangely, they all tend to use traditional Mahayana terms. Years ago, I was told by Aj Sujato of their Mahayana influence. Their leaders seems mostly Chinese btw. I suppose there's a connection.
From the media reports and the comments in this thread, the criticism and controversy regarding Dhammakaya is directed at its unethical conduct, particularly regarding fund raising as well as the theological views of Dhammachaiyo and the organisation. Very little criticism has been directed at the Dhammakaya technique of meditation, which can be expected as that would be quite subjective. However, perhaps Dhammakaya Foundation overshadows the smaller sub-groups, people tend to tar them all with the same broad brush. I'm wondering if that is appropriate.
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Kumara
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Kumara »

pilgrim wrote:From the media reports and the comments in this thread, the criticism and controversy regarding Dhammakaya is directed at its unethical conduct, particularly regarding fund raising as well as the theological views of Dhammachaiyo and the organisation. Very little criticism has been directed at the Dhammakaya technique of meditation, which can be expected as that would be quite subjective. However, perhaps Dhammakaya Foundation overshadows the smaller sub-groups, people tend to tar them all with the same broad brush. I'm wondering if that is appropriate.
Yes, the son has overshadowed the father. But in this case the father started it. Not correct to regard them as the same though.

Going by the earlier texts, if a monk preached the "Dhammakaya technique" at the time of the Buddha, we can expect the Buddha to deal with it immediately. Then it wouldn't have proliferated.

No one in Thailand cared enough to do anything earlier. Now it's a fire difficult to control.
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Jetavan
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Jetavan »

People often think Dhammakaya only cares about donations or cares about getting people to the temple, but that is just an impression based on outer appearances,” says Phra Sandr, a Buddhist monk from the Netherlands. “When people come here for a while they notice that there is a very important core where people are learning to practice character.” -- PBS Religion & Ethics Newsweekly
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