Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Mr Man
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by Mr Man »

rowboat wrote:
Mr Man: Will you be posting "irrevocable and certain evidence"?
"I do personally have irrevocable and certain evidence of rebirth."
Well why don't you share it? In your first post you were talking about "independent verification". I presumed that you personally had irrevocable and certain evidence. Possibly you don't.
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rowboat
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by rowboat »

Mr Man wrote:
rowboat wrote:
Mr Man: Will you be posting "irrevocable and certain evidence"?
"I do personally have irrevocable and certain evidence of rebirth."
Well why don't you share it? In your first post you were talking about "independent verification". I presumed that you personally had irrevocable and certain evidence. Possibly you don't.
OK, I would love to. But how can I do this? Is there perhaps some machine by which you can slip into my mind and witness the things that I witness? Or is that like throwing chains around a ghost? Perhaps you might consider, as SamKR realizes, naturally, that I am using the term 'evidence' other than the way that e.g. a scientist would.
SamKR:
For rowboat it is irrevocable and certain.
Mr Man:
In your first post you were talking about "independent verification". I presumed that you personally had irrevocable and certain evidence. Possibly you don't.
Yes, I am very keen to speak with a Tibetologist. I have very specific details about matters that occurred in that country. These events should have been recorded and are of a nature where it is unlikely that they are historically obscure. (Although, tragically, so much of Tibetan culture has been recently destroyed...)
Rain soddens what is covered up,
It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it.
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Mr Man
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by Mr Man »

So the point is you do not have "irrevocable and certain evidence".
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rowboat
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by rowboat »

Mr Man wrote:So the point is you do not have "irrevocable and certain evidence".
No, I do personally have irrevocable and certain evidence of rebirth.
Rain soddens what is covered up,
It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it.
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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist »

rowboat wrote:
Mr Man wrote: Well why don't you share it? In your first post you were talking about "independent verification". I presumed that you personally had irrevocable and certain evidence. Possibly you don't.
OK, I would love to. But how can I do this? Is there perhaps some machine by which you can slip into my mind and witness the things that I witness? Or is that like throwing chains around a ghost? Perhaps you might consider, as SamKR realizes, naturally, that I am using the term 'evidence' other than the way that e.g. a scientist would.
You're not using it in the way any other person would, though.
Evidence is proof that can be unequivocally corroborated, of something happening.
All we can gather from this therefore, is that you happen to believe it to be true; you trust your own memory, but not in any way that you can demonstrably prove to others, is accurate.

I would refer you back to the link I provided, which SCIENTIFICALLY demonstrates that our memories are tricking us.

I would further direct you to this article, also.
Yes, I am very keen to speak with a Tibetologist. I have very specific details about matters that occurred in that country. These events should have been recorded and are of a nature where it is unlikely that they are historically obscure. (Although, tragically, so much of Tibetan culture has been recently destroyed...)
If it is "unlikely that they are historically obscure", then that you attribute these things to a memory of past lives is wholly questionable, as is illustrated by the link I have given you, above.
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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rowboat
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by rowboat »

You're not using it in the way any other person would, though.
This is clearly untrue. SamKR knew precisely what I was saying.
Rain soddens what is covered up,
It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it.
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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist »

SamKR understood it in a way you intended. Others didn't. That doesn't therefore make your use of the word, correct.

Just significant.

And as you have outlined yourself, the only 'evidence' you have for the verification of your accounts, is all within your mind.

Therefore, one can hardly take that as concrete proof, if you are unable to substantiate your recollections with any degree of visible or verifiable accuracy.

Evidence, therefore, is the incorrect term to use. it is both misleading and vague.
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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Mr Man
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by Mr Man »

And irrevocable? Will you still hold the belief after you die?
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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist »

So this post actually, should read.....
rowboat wrote:
manas wrote:Of course none of us here as far as I know has conclusive evidence that literal rebirth happens, but it is still a good idea to conduct one's life as though it does.
I HAVE CERTAIN MEMORIES WHICH I AM ATTRIBUTING TO rebirth, BUT I AM NOT SURE, AND I CAN'T PROVE ANYTHING...

..... I may add more when I return home.

:anjali:

....and would have prevented all this dialogue.
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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rowboat
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by rowboat »

Mr Man wrote:And irrevocable? Will you still hold the belief after you die?
Hehehe. ;)

It depends on whether or not I remember.
Rain soddens what is covered up,
It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it.
Ud 5.5
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rowboat
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by rowboat »

TheNoBSBuddhist. I would like you to remove from the quotation box those words in your previous post that you hypothetically attribute to me. Keep them all you like, but please do not publish them in the quotation box.

In the spirit of full disclosure I should admit that I find you to be childish and even a bit irritating. Also, you have posted here almost 700 times in less than two months. I don't think this is healthy and it concerns me. For these reasons, in the future I am going to limit my interactions with you. I wish you the best.

:anjali:
Rain soddens what is covered up,
It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it.
Ud 5.5
whynotme
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by whynotme »

@ rowboat,

What is your opinion on the sutta about 32 signs of great man (I don't remember the name exactly)? Some said it was a late development. I really curious about physical attributes of the Buddha, and it seems you don't want talk about your memory, could you talk about that sutta in general?

Regards
Please stop following me
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rowboat
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by rowboat »

whynotme wrote:@ rowboat,

What is your opinion on the sutta about 32 signs of great man (I don't remember the name exactly)? Some said it was a late development. I really curious about physical attributes of the Buddha, and it seems you don't want talk about your memory, could you talk about that sutta in general?

Regards
I'm Sorry, I can't help you with that.
Rain soddens what is covered up,
It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it.
Ud 5.5
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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist »

That's a true shame.
Sadly, it actually means you can't help us with much of anything....

You limit whatever you want, with whomever you want.
This is your personal stumbling-block, not mine.
If I am intolerable to you, then it's you who cannot tolerate.
I have neither done nor said anything insulting, belittling, uncivil, disrespectful or controversial.

I have attempted to engage you in such a way as to be attempt to discuss rebirth in an educated, constructive and productive manner.
It is you, who has back-pedalled and become defensive.

In short, if someone can't back up their beliefs, further scrutiny is not unreasonable.
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: Anyone who has seen rebirth ?.

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist »

rowboat wrote:TheNoBSBuddhist. I would like you to remove from the quotation box those words in your previous post that you hypothetically attribute to me. Keep them all you like, but please do not publish them in the quotation box.
Unnecessary.
It's quite clear they are not your words, and are hypothetical. You even point it out as such, so it's perfectly presentable as it is.
In the spirit of full disclosure I should admit that I find you to be childish and even a bit irritating.

That is your perception. Remember, occasionally what we perceive is merely a reflection of our own hindrances....
Also, you have posted here almost 700 times in less than two months. I don't think this is healthy and it concerns me.
Why?
My circumstances dictate that I am in such a position to do so.
I am grateful for your obvious concern for my health, naturally, but I don't see what that actually has to do with anything being discussed here....
For these reasons, in the future I am going to limit my interactions with you. I wish you the best.
You do whatever you feel is right for you.
I shall continue posting as I feel, particularly if advancing my learning in the Dhamma and Sangha, is what motivates me, which is indeed the case.
If it is stimulating, educational, informative and edifying, I will contribute, to the best of my ability....
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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