daily short meditations vs weekly long sessions

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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no mike
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Re: daily short meditations vs weekly long sessions

Post by no mike »

Anagarika wrote:Mike, your posts are really very good, and point out some of the challenges that we face in the west when trying to do the practice as the Buddha taught it, with jhana being a big part of that. Even living near a big city in the US, as I do, it's hard to find practice centers, teachers, and a sangha that feels comfortable. Zen centers are somewhat plentiful, but my experience has been mixed when I have sought out zendos in order to have a sangha to sit with. Some cities have Thai wats for example, but these often serve the Thai and Lao community, and instruction in English is not always available.
There is a Thai "forest temple," about 1.5-2 hours from here. I will contact them to see if they have anything available by way of visiting/staying short periods, or meditation instruction. Their website only mentions special day observances and services, etc.

What I liked very much that I saw in Thailand, was that lay people could be monks for a weekend (how awesome is that?), a week, a month, or indefinitely. Here, lay people are lay people, and access to brief stays at temples seems much more limited. There are opportunities for registering with groups of others for various scheduled retreats, but they are usually infrequent and kind of far away. Don't get me wrong, the retreats look very beneficial, but such opportunities for me are limited by being away from my kids for too long.

I tried making my own little place like a temple. I don't listen to music or watch tv, I don't drink, eat meat, and I even tried some no-meals-after 12 recently. Thank goodness nobody here to enforce that last one on an ongoing basis :) (it was however, very much worth investigating).

Next on my agenda is to seek some inspiration and tips from historical or fellow laypeople. I know there are biographies like that out there, I could rotate material like that into my Dhamma reading.

Thanks again, for posting feedback :)
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no mike
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Wat Metta

Post by no mike »

http://www.watmetta.org/index.html

The Metta Forest Monastery may be the best example of what I am looking for in the US, only something closer to where I live, or at least a day's drive.

"There are no scheduled retreats at the Monastery as there are at most meditation retreat centers. Rather, the Monastery is always in “retreat” mode, and visitors drop into and out of the routine according to their own schedules. All visitors are asked to observe the Eight Precepts and to participate fully in the daily schedule of the Monastery."

I will continue to make my own home my own little refuge, and I am about to order Pure and Simple, Upasika Kee Nanayon/Thanissaro. Looking to accomplished laypeople as role models for inspiration and practical solutions.

I think I am finding a lot of what I need by making a place and livelihood as wholesome and free from distractions as possible, but a good meditation teacher I can visit on occasion might be critical. Perhaps I will stick with my multiple-hour walks in nature as my long version of meditation. Can't seem to find a place to sit out there before the occasional tourist finds me, but maybe I need to search a little harder, wear a bug net, and not sit on any fire-ant mounds.

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Spiny Norman
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Re: daily short meditations vs weekly long sessions

Post by Spiny Norman »

no mike wrote: Assuming daily practice of morality, precepts, mindfulness, Dhamma study, etc... If there was a choice of one or the other, which scenario might have better momentum for the development of deeper states of concentration: daily one-hour meditation, or weekends (consecutive) dedicated to all-day scheduling of walking/sitting?
Meditating all day is going to be more beneficial than meditating for an hour, but regularity is also important. Can you not do both?
Buddha save me from new-agers!
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no mike
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Re: daily short meditations vs weekly long sessions

Post by no mike »

Spiny Norman wrote:
no mike wrote: Assuming daily practice of morality, precepts, mindfulness, Dhamma study, etc... If there was a choice of one or the other, which scenario might have better momentum for the development of deeper states of concentration: daily one-hour meditation, or weekends (consecutive) dedicated to all-day scheduling of walking/sitting?
Meditating all day is going to be more beneficial than meditating for an hour, but regularity is also important. Can you not do both?
I could do both, but I need to consider changes.

The longer schedule for the weekends would be tricky but I could try to put forth the effort, make arrangements, etc. It may require a whole change in Buddhist schools.
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manas
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Re: daily short meditations vs weekly long sessions

Post by manas »

Hi mike

I find that the mind responds well to being calmed daily. It kind of gets used to it, and once it becomes a habit, it seems to 'ask' for it even, in that if you miss a session, for the rest of that day you feel like something is 'missing', your mind actually reminds you that you have not meditated as yet that day! That's been my experience, anyway.

:anjali:
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
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Re: daily short meditations vs weekly long sessions

Post by martinfrank »

Daily vs weekly... Nobody ever meditated tomorrow!

The rotary engine of Buddhist progress is sila-samadhi-pañña or morality-meditation-wisdom. Meditation without morality is an uphill battle. Morality is much easier acquired with the help of meditation. Wisdom grows best from morality and meditation. If we cannot sit and meditate, we can work on morality and understanding.

Don't we generally overrate meditation and underrate morality? And wouldn't understanding Dependent Origination give meditation a power boost?
The Noble Eightfold Path: Proposed to all, imposed on none.
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Re: daily short meditations vs weekly long sessions

Post by Mkoll »

martinfrank wrote:Don't we generally overrate meditation and underrate morality?
That seems to be a trend, especially in meditation practices or traditions where morality may have little emphasis at all. And you're right, virtue is necessary for concentration.
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Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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Re: daily short meditations vs weekly long sessions

Post by Sokehi »

manas wrote:Hi mike

I find that the mind responds well to being calmed daily. It kind of gets used to it, and once it becomes a habit, it seems to 'ask' for it even, in that if you miss a session, for the rest of that day you feel like something is 'missing', your mind actually reminds you that you have not meditated as yet that day! That's been my experience, anyway.

:anjali:
I share the same experience and it's wonderfull ... so the practice starts looking after you when you look after the practice :anjali:
Get the wanting out of waiting

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no mike
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Re: daily short meditations vs weekly long sessions

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martinfrank wrote:Daily vs weekly... Nobody ever meditated tomorrow!

The rotary engine of Buddhist progress is sila-samadhi-pañña or morality-meditation-wisdom. Meditation without morality is an uphill battle. Morality is much easier acquired with the help of meditation. Wisdom grows best from morality and meditation. If we cannot sit and meditate, we can work on morality and understanding.

Don't we generally overrate meditation and underrate morality? And wouldn't understanding Dependent Origination give meditation a power boost?
I agree that morality and meditation work together, neither to be underrated:

"We have to be strong in fighting off defilements, cravings, and illusions of every sort. We have to test our strength against them and bring them under our power. If we can bring them under our power, we can ride on their backs. If we can't, they'll have to ride on our backs, making us do their work, pulling us around by the nose, making us want, wearing us out in all sorts of ways." (Breath Meditation Condensed by Upasika Kee Nanayon translated from the Thai by Thanissaro Bhikkhu, http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... ensed.html)

More from Kee/Thanissaro (this quote from Pure and Simple):

"§ When we practice we're like diamond cutters. Our diamond — the mind — is embedded in dense, dark defilements. We have to use mindfulness and discernment — or virtue, concentration, and discernment — as our cutting tools to make the mind pure in all its thoughts, words, and deeds. Then we train the mind to grow still and to contemplate so as to give rise to clear knowledge all the way to the point where you meet with what's totally pure and free from defilements and mental fermentations: our "Miss Emptiness" who is so extremely beautiful, free from change, whom the King of Death can't see." (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... imple.html)

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seeker242
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Re: daily short meditations vs weekly long sessions

Post by seeker242 »

If I had to choose, I would choose daily, most certainly. :anjali:
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purple planet
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Re: daily short meditations vs weekly long sessions

Post by purple planet »

except for saying that it does seem to me (not sure at all) that its best to go for daily (and ideally daily plus stronger effort on weekends)

i would like to ask i really like the starting a fire idiom

but something bothers me : if i would like to start a fire and i would have to choose i would rather rub very fast for a short time than long and weak - same with the kettle example i would think its better to put full heat for 2 minutes than weak heat for 2 hours

- can someone solve this mystery to me - cause while i like this examples a lot - i found it flawed ( but i am no expert on starting fires or boiling water so maybe i am wrong here )

so can someone explain to me why this examples are more convincing to put the heat on low for a long time than to put strong heat for a short time ?

and to make it clear im not asking about the dhamma aspect but clearly about the "how it works in real life" aspect
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Re: daily short meditations vs weekly long sessions

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purple planet wrote:except for saying that it does seem to me (not sure at all) that its best to go for daily (and ideally daily plus stronger effort on weekends)

i would like to ask i really like the starting a fire idiom

but something bothers me : if i would like to start a fire and i would have to choose i would rather rub very fast for a short time than long and weak - same with the kettle example i would think its better to put full heat for 2 minutes than weak heat for 2 hours

- can someone solve this mystery to me - cause while i like this examples a lot - i found it flawed ( but i am no expert on starting fires or boiling water so maybe i am wrong here )

so can someone explain to me why this examples are more convincing to put the heat on low for a long time than to put strong heat for a short time ?

and to make it clear im not asking about the dhamma aspect but clearly about the "how it works in real life" aspect
Similes, metaphors, and analogies are useful tools for eliciting understanding. However, like any tool, they are limited in their use. One can only take a metaphor so far before it falls apart and one goes beyond the point the metaphor is trying to make. One just has to use one's discernment to figure out how far one can go with a metaphor until it stops being useful and starts being a hindrance.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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purple planet
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Re: daily short meditations vs weekly long sessions

Post by purple planet »

true i understand what your saying

but this metaphor seems to be falling apart to soon - at least for myself
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