How and where we get wisdom by meditation (Bhavanamaya Panna

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
SarathW
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How and where we get wisdom by meditation (Bhavanamaya Panna

Postby SarathW » Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:47 am

How and where we get wisdom by meditation (Bhavanamaya Panna)?

This question is based on the teaching of as per the following link.
I understand very clearly how we get wisdom by hearing and thinking.
I need to know how Bhavanmaya Panna works. Is there a scientific reason?

:thinking:

=========
According to the commentaries, people who can attain the first
and higher stages of enlightenment through mere hearing of a
discourse do not exist anymore nowadays. However, one can
gain knowledge by listening attentively to the wise when one is
unable to think out or reason by oneself. This kind of knowledge
is called Sutamaya Panna (wisdom derived through hearing)
while the knowledge acquired through reasoning is called
Cintamaya Panna (wisdom derived from thinking) and the
experiential or insight knowledge gained through meditation is
called Bhavanamaya Panna (wisdom derived from meditation).
According to the Mangala Sutta, "Association with the wise is
the highest blessing", because when one listens attentively to the
words of the wise, one acquires wisdom from them.
======
In worldly matters, Cintamaya Panna and Sutamaya Panna are
very extensive in nature. All the arts and sciences one learned at
school and university, were acquired through listening, and thus
constitute Sutamaya Panna. All various crafts and professions
acquired through one's reasoning and research and not through
asking or hearing from others constitute Cintamaya Panna. Thus
to achieve worldly knowledge to enable one to be successful,
attentive listening followed by reasoning or research on the
subject is crucial.
http://www.urbandharma.org/pdf/PDF_Budd ... havana.pdf

K.Dhamma
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Re: How and where we get wisdom by meditation (Bhavanamaya P

Postby K.Dhamma » Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:51 pm

Maybe it's that the experiences are always here and around us. Meditation gives us the clarity to see them without all the extraneous input.
"Remember you dont meditate to get anything, but to get rid of things. We do it, not with desire, but with letting go. If you want anything, you wont find it." - Ajahn Chah

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Sam Vara
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Re: How and where we get wisdom by meditation (Bhavanamaya P

Postby Sam Vara » Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:47 pm

Does Bhavana-maya-panna mean wisdom that is exclusively gained via formal meditation? Given that bhavana refers to "becoming" or "cultivation" could it not have the slightly wider meaning of wisdom that is acquired through the changes that one affects in oneself through the practice? We hear the teaching and accept it; then we think about it and our acceptance deepens when we realise it makes sense; but we really only have complete acceptance when we know for ourselves because putting it into practice has changed us.

For example, the practice of loving kindness is accepted at a bhavana-maya-panna level when we know for ourselves that it makes us more patient and good-natured. Likewise, knowing the benefits of generosity arises when we have transformed ourselves into a more generous being. This doesn't have to be acquired through formal sitting meditation.

Just speculation on my part, arising from a recent search for the canonical roots of these three types of wisdom. They seemed to be quite scanty, allowing for a slightly wider understanding based on habituation. Happy to be corrected!

SarathW
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Re: How and where we get wisdom by meditation (Bhavanamaya P

Postby SarathW » Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:24 am

Hi K.Dhamma – I think the same way. Eg. Nibbana is already here but we discover it by meditation
Hi Sam – I see your point. The knowledge by hearing and thinking may be supported by meditation.
I think only a Buddha may have the ability to gain full understanding (Nirvana) without hearing and thinking.
=========
Some more info:
a) It appears mental hindrances block the understanding.
The Blessed Buddha once said:
There are five obstructing obstacles and hindrances of the mind, which
weakens knowledge. What five?
The mental hindrance of Sense-Desire is an overgrowing blocking insight.
The mental hindrance of Evil-Will is a fire-like mental stumbling block.
The mental hindrance of Lethargy & Laziness is a slowing interruption.
The mental hindrance of Restlessness & Regret is a stirring disturbance.
The mental hindrance of Doubt & Uncertainty is an wall-like embankment.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=110&start=1840#p295316


b) Through meditation mental abilities awakens.

The blessed Buddha once said:
Bhikkhus, and friends, there are these 5 abilities (indriya). Which five?
The ability of Faith (saddha)
The ability of Energy (viriya)
The ability of Awareness (sati)
The ability of Concentration (samadhi)
The ability of Understanding (pañña)

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=110&start=1840#p295478


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