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Sankhara aggregate - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

Sankhara aggregate

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Spiny Norman
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Re: Sankhara aggregate

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:40 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
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daverupa
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Re: Sankhara aggregate

Postby daverupa » Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:31 pm


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Re: Sankhara aggregate

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:25 am

I think the activity of the sankhara aggregate can be viewed as how we react to the the more immediate level of experience represented by the other four aggregates - this reaction includes how we think, feel and act.
If this is correct it would suggest that the activity of the sankhara aggregate is pivotal in creating self-view, and also the main "target" for our practice.
"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
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acinteyyo
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Re: Sankhara aggregate

Postby acinteyyo » Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:04 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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Re: Sankhara aggregate

Postby vinasp » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:01 am

Hi everyone,

I think that we should explore the relationship between sankhara and volition and kamma. "Padmasiri de Silva points out that sankhara is often considered synonymous with the concept of volition or kamma." [Boisvert 1995, p. 96.]

We have already seen examples of sankhara described as volition. Here is a discourse, SN 35.146 which speaks of kamma.

"Bhikkhus, I will teach you new and old kamma, the cessation of kamma, and the way leading to the cessation of kamma. Listen to that and attend closely, I will speak.

And what, bhikkhus, is old kamma? The eye is old kamma, to be seen as generated and fashioned by volition, as something to be felt.146

The ear is old kamma ... The mind is old kamma, to be seen as generated and fashioned by volition, as something to be felt. This is old kamma.

And what, bhikkhus, is new kamma? Whatever action one does now by body, speech, or mind. This is called new kamma.

And what, bhikkhus, is the cessation of kamma? When one reaches liberation through the cessation of bodily action, verbal action, and mental action. This is called the cessation of kamma.

And what, bhikkhus, is the way leading to the cessation of kamma? It is this noble eightfold path, right view .... right concentration............"

[BB, TCDB, p. 1231, part of SN 35.146 - Kamma.]

My comments.

The 'eye' is old volition. The misconception of the eye as permanent, a source of pleasure, and related to self, is the result of past volitional thinking.
This misconception was generated by volition, as something to be known.

Or one could say that the habit of regarding the eye as permanent, as pleasure, as mine, was formed in the past by volition.

Whatever action one does now is new kamma. Note the use of 'one', all actions based on the view of self are called kamma, and (some?) produce results in samsaric existence.

Liberation removes the view of self, so there is no more kamma.

But are there still actions? It would be interesting to see the original Pali.

Regards, Vincent.

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Re: Sankhara aggregate

Postby vinasp » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:13 am

Hi everyone,

1. We know that sankhara (fabricator) is sometimes explained as volition.

2. We know that the volition through which one performs actions is called kamma.

3. Therefore sankhara (fabricator) is volition through which one performs actions which produce a result.

4. So sankhara, volition, and kamma are all the same thing?

5. But there is a distinction between new and old kamma - actions, volitions, sankharas, fabricators.

Please correct me if you think any of this is wrong.

Regards, Vincent.

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Re: Sankhara aggregate

Postby Spiny Norman » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:33 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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acinteyyo
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Re: Sankhara aggregate

Postby acinteyyo » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:17 am

Last edited by acinteyyo on Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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Re: Sankhara aggregate

Postby LXNDR » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:23 am


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Re: Sankhara aggregate

Postby Spiny Norman » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:29 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
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Re: Sankhara aggregate

Postby daverupa » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:49 am


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Re: Sankhara aggregate

Postby chownah » Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:00 pm

daverupa,
You wrote, "The arahant can perform acts aligned with the Path because these acts are not conducive to brightness or darkness, and thus continuation". I am reasonably sure that it was not your intention but it does seem as if your arahant has forgotten to discard the raft. Seems to me that an arahant could perform whatever act because they are no longer bound by the path because of their mastery of intention.......I guess......don't know for sure........
chownah
P.S. Maybe with arahants there arises action but no acts......I guess......don't know for sure.......
chownah

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daverupa
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Re: Sankhara aggregate

Postby daverupa » Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:21 pm


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acinteyyo
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Re: Sankhara aggregate

Postby acinteyyo » Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:33 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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Spiny Norman
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Re: Sankhara aggregate

Postby Spiny Norman » Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:06 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Spiny Norman
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Re: Sankhara aggregate

Postby Spiny Norman » Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:11 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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daverupa
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Re: Sankhara aggregate

Postby daverupa » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:04 pm


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Re: Sankhara aggregate

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:17 pm

Stumped.

is that a yes, or no?

I can't discern whether that answers Spiny Norman's question or not.... :rolleye:
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, may be why....

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daverupa
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Re: Sankhara aggregate

Postby daverupa » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:55 pm

It's a clarificatory span of data encompassing more than those two simple choices, largely because the use of the word 'kamma' in the question touches on a broad semantic realm that has English scrambling for words with slightly different connotative realms in order to encompass the query with accuracy.

So, using that quote, I'll say that arahants, while the aggregates have yet to finally dissociate, engage with hollow/rootless action which is aligned with the Path and which is nonproductive due to nibbana.

The primary example here is teaching.

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acinteyyo
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Re: Sankhara aggregate

Postby acinteyyo » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:09 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.


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