assada adinava and nissarana

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kc2dpt
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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Post by kc2dpt »

tiltbillings wrote:It is not a traditional listing that has been teased out of the texts and named by the tradition.
That does appear to be the case, as curious as that is. If it is indeed the case then an interesting next question might be "Why? Is there some significance to the fact that this listing hasn't been deemed name-worthy?"
Just for Stefan's own edification, it might worth doing a search of the canon to see how often those words are used together.
Informmaly, I feel like I've seen this grouping a bunch of times. Hence why I thought it odd they didn't have a name. Maybe there's something in the Visudhimagga?
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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tiltbillings
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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Post by tiltbillings »

A very quick - not thorough - run through the suttas finds these three word used together as few as three times in the Samyutta Nikaya. There may be more, but I don't have time to look as carefully as is really needed. But if these words are used so little together, that would explain why they are seen as a doctrinal grouping with a name of their own.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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retrofuturist
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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Stefan,
Stefan wrote:I took the term "standpoints" from here. Does the "Three Standpoints" sound OK?
Looking at the reference provided, I agree with the commentators that these "three standpoints" may be tied back to the Four Noble Truths. (see that reference for more information... it won't let me copy and paste here)

Perhaps you could treat them as an alternative rendering of the 4NT?

Calling them "three standpoints" alone doesn't seem at all intuitive to me, since awareness and recognition of the true nature of these things seems wise, whereas "standpoints" has ignorant connotations in the suttas. For example...

SN 1.20: Samiddhi Sutta
http://www.vipassana.com/canon/samyutta/sn1-20.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Perceiving in terms of signs, beings
take a stand on signs.
Not fully comprehending signs, they
come into the bonds
of death.
But fully comprehending signs, one
doesn't construe
a signifier.
Yet nothing exists for him
by which one would say,
'To him no thought occurs.'

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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kc2dpt
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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Post by kc2dpt »

Some I found:

MN 11
SN 36.15
SN 36.6
AN 3.101
AN 3.102

There's a section on this in Bodhi's "In the Buddha's Words".
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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tiltbillings
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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Post by tiltbillings »

Peter wrote:Some I found:

MN 11
Discourse 11? PTS reference?
There's a section on this in Bodhi's "In the Buddha's Words".

Page?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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retrofuturist
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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Tilt,
tiltbillings wrote:Discourse 11? PTS reference?
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .ntbb.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Paragraph 7.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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tiltbillings
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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Post by tiltbillings »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Tilt,
tiltbillings wrote:Discourse 11? PTS reference?
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .ntbb.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Paragraph 7.

Metta,
Retro. :)
MN i 65.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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cooran
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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Post by cooran »

Hello Stefan,
Stefan said: I am asking what the name is, not create a new one.
This is a good thing. If there is no name, then there is no name.

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Alex123
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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Post by Alex123 »

Here is interesting sutta:
  • So long, bhikkhus, as I did not directly know as they really are the gratification, the danger, and the escape in the case of these four elements, I did not claim to have awakened to the unsurpassed perfect enlightenment in this world with its devas, Måra, and Brahmå, in this generation with its recluses and brahmins, its devas and humans...The knowledge and vision arose in me: ‘Unshakeable is my liberation of mind; this is my last birth; now there is no more re-becoming" SN14.31 (2) Before My Enlightenment
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Kumara
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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Post by Kumara »

Stephen K wrote:I took the term "standpoints" from here. Does the "Three Standpoints" sound OK?
If you have to give a name to them, I'd go for "The 3 Aspects". "Standpoints" don't make sense here.
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Dhammanando
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Re: assada adinava and nissarana

Post by Dhammanando »

Stiphan wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:19 pm assada (enjoyment), adinava (danger) and nissarana (escape) - what is the collective name for these concepts?
They don't have one, but if one were needed, then "four noble truths compressed to three" would do, based on the equivalences given in the Nettipakaraṇa Atthakathā:

dukkha = ādīnava
samudaya = assāda
magga & nirodha = nissaraṇa
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
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