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The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate - Page 6 - Dhamma Wheel

The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
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David N. Snyder
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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:54 pm

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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:02 pm

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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:45 pm

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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:55 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:59 am

This whole thread is starting to puzzle me. It seems clear that the translation of many technical points in the Suttas is only possible with a careful reading of commentaries and a lifetime of study. "Just reading the Suttas" is therefore not an option for most of us. One is actually reading the interpretations of the translator, so in my opinion it would be sensible to read what the translator says about the commentary and how he/she has used the commentary to tease out the meaning.

Similarly, there is the idea that the ancient commentators and Venerable Buddhagosa were completely confused about the meaning of the Tipitika is rather odd. But modern Venerables such as Ajahn Chah, or people who have spent a few years reading translations, have derived a clear vision from the Suttas that surpasses the understanding of the ancient Sangha...

There is certainly a place scholarship on these issues, and it is of course possible that modern translators have misinterpreted the ancient commentators, and more analysis of their views is necessary. But simply rejecting the Abhidhamma and Commentaries because they are "later" than the Suttas seems to me a rather odd attitude. A little like insisting that everyone since Newton has misunderstood Calculus...

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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby pt1 » Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:01 am


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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby pt1 » Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:12 am


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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:07 pm

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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby Ben » Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:29 pm

Hi David

I don't think you've answered pt's question.
Udana 5.5 nor does the extract from Bullitt's argument separate the Abhidhamma from the Dhamma.
Are you able to cite anything else that can give credence to your conjecture?
Many thanks

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:02 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:01 am

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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby pt1 » Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:28 am


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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:52 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:43 am

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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby imagemarie » Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:09 pm

:clap: :goodpost:

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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby pt1 » Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:53 pm


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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby kc2dpt » Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:19 pm

- Peter


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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:18 pm

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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:42 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate

Postby pt1 » Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:12 am



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