Kamma & Dreams

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Kamma & Dreams

Postby uniformsquare » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:21 am

I was wondering do you produce kamma when you dream?
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Re: Kamma & Dreams

Postby Guy » Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:23 am

Hi uniformsquare,

I have a theory that it's the other way around: What you dream is a result of past kamma (often what you've been doing or thinking about that day is reflected in the dream state).

I might be wrong about this...

With Metta,

Guy
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1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

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Re: Kamma & Dreams

Postby acinteyyo » Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:07 am

uniformsquare wrote:I was wondering do you produce kamma when you dream?

2. ANGUTTARA VI,63
Cetanáham bhikkhave kammam vadámi; cetayitvá kammam karoti káyena vácáya manasá.

Action (kamma), monks, I say is intention (cetaná); intending, one does action by body, by speech, by mind.


there is only kamma when there is an intention. action without intention is not kamma.

best wishes, acinteyyo
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Both formerly, monks, and now, it is just suffering that I make known and the ending of suffering.

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Re: Kamma & Dreams

Postby kannada » Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:46 am

there is only kamma when there is an intention. action without intention is not kamma.

So if a trucker in an eighteen wheeler inadvertantly runs over you whilst he's texting his wife, then there's no kamma for you or the trucker...

Ouch!!!

k
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Re: Kamma & Dreams

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:27 pm

kannada wrote:
there is only kamma when there is an intention. action without intention is not kamma.

So if a trucker in an eighteen wheeler inadvertantly runs over you whilst he's texting his wife, then there's no kamma for you or the trucker...

Ouch!!!

k


there would be kammic consequenses here, as it was an intentional action to not pay attention to ones duties (driving)
Last edited by Cittasanto on Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kamma & Dreams

Postby kannada » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:08 pm

Manapa wrote:
kannada wrote:
there is only kamma when there is an intention. action without intention is not kamma.

So if a trucker in an eighteen wheeler inadvertantly runs over you whilst he's texting his wife, then there's no kamma for you or the trucker...

Ouch!!!

k


their would be kammic consequenses here, as it was an intentional action to not pay attention to ones duties (driving)

Ah! But the truck driver was texting his wife, she was depressed and threatening harm to her children and suicide to herself. The hapless truck driver was trying to convince her not to go ahead with her intentions. He was trying (intending) to fulfil his role as husband and father when the accident happened. She was intending to create harm to herself and her children. I was intending to cross the road (wearing a black and white striped suit whilst walking on a zebra crossing :lol: ). The interplay of intention begins to look somewhat complex...

Who cops the kamma???
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Re: Kamma & Dreams

Postby acinteyyo » Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:01 pm

kannada wrote:
there is only kamma when there is an intention. action without intention is not kamma.

So if a trucker in an eighteen wheeler inadvertantly runs over you whilst he's texting his wife, then there's no kamma for you or the trucker...

Ouch!!!

k


nice story. but manapa already said it. the trucker's actions and my action are intended, therefore there is kamma and kamma-vipaka. it is not possible to ponder in what an effect a particular action results, that would be nothing more than making assumptions. that's all. besides there is not really kamma for me or the trucker. when one acts intentionally this is kamma. when there is kamma there will be kamma-vipaka. actio -> reactio. there is kamma which leads to more kamma and there is kamma which leads to the cessation of kamma. i.e. there are actions leading to more action and there are actions leading to the cessation of action. akusala kamma (unwholesome actions) and kusala kamma (wholesome actions) means that.

best wishes, acinteyyo
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Both formerly, monks, and now, it is just suffering that I make known and the ending of suffering.

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Re: Kamma & Dreams

Postby Ben » Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:15 pm

Ladies and gentlemen ~
Please return to topic.
Thanks

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Re: Kamma & Dreams

Postby uniformsquare » Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:32 pm

I guess my question is do we still have intention in dreams?
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Re: Kamma & Dreams

Postby Moggalana » Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:45 pm

uniformsquare wrote:I guess my question is do we still have intention in dreams?


In a normal dream? I don't know but my guess would be 'no'. In a lucid dream? I think so, yes. Perhaps this is something a Vajrayana practitioner could shed some light on?
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Re: Kamma & Dreams

Postby EOD » Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:50 pm

uniformsquare wrote:I guess my question is do we still have intention in dreams?

I think you and everyone else should be able to answer this question from his/her own experience. My dreams are more than just passive observing. I intend to run away, to have sex, to kill, to fly, to whatever ... All that is intention.

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Re: Kamma & Dreams

Postby kannada » Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:51 pm

Ben wrote:Ladies and gentlemen ~
Please return to topic.
Thanks

Ben

Hi Ben,

Sorry if my post seemed off-topic. I was trying to understand the Buddhist version of kamma re: intention via my hypothetical scenarios. I am more familiar the Hindu perspective of kamma being more a cause/effect process, the Buddhist view interests me but not by any means convinces me. As per my examples above 'intention' may only account for a small fraction of actual results, each of which can profoundly effect an outcome from unforseen cicrumstances. A dreamer might be deeply effected by his dream so much that his life would be altered therefrom hence an unintended karmic result...

Manapa and Acinteyyo...

Thank you kindly for your repsonses

Regards

k
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Re: Kamma & Dreams

Postby Ben » Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:28 am

Hi kannada
I understand, but your off-topic meanderings was derailing this thread.
By all means start another thread on the aspect of kamma that you wish to explore.
OK, enough meta-discussion, let's return to topic.
Kind regards

Ben
"Only those who take to meditation with good intentions can be assured of success. With the development of the purity and the power of the mind backed by the insight into the ultimate truth of nature, one might be able to do a lot of things in the right direction for the benefit of mankind."

Sayagyi U Ba Khin


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief
UNHCR Syria Emergency Relief AppealTyphoon Haiyan Relief AppealKiva: (person to person micro-finance)

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com
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Re: Kamma & Dreams

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:43 am

uniformsquare wrote:I was wondering do you produce kamma when you dream?


I suppose sometimes there maybe a possibility of this happening, I know I have felt the same way after dreaming something vividly (this happends rarely don't usually remember dreams at all) so I would guess it may depend on if we are asleep or semi-asleep, and how we react to the dream once awake (does it continue to affect us or do we start afresh?)

PS Sorry for engaging in off topic parts I thought it was part of the discussion from the original poster at the time (seriously where is the slap own face emoticon!!!)
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Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Kamma & Dreams

Postby Guy » Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:49 am

Hi All,

Last night I had a lucid dream, I was being chased by a glass of orange juice who somehow represented a friend I had in high school and at some point I must have realized that glasses of orange juice aren't people and so I became lucid. At which point my first intentional action within the dream for some reason was to create a bow and arrow and shoot at a speed limit sign - would this be considered kamma, considering I was aware of the fact I was dreaming and I intended to do something?

With Metta,

Guy
Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm
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Re: Kamma & Dreams

Postby Thaibebop » Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:24 am

it makes more sense to me that the dreams had are reflections of your kamma. I have never liked my dreams, they have always been strange and disturbing. I figured that they might as well be a form of punishment for many have terrified me way after I have had them.
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Re: Kamma & Dreams

Postby Individual » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:09 am

uniformsquare wrote:I was wondering do you produce kamma when you dream?

You're misusing the term "kamma". It's a common way of abusing the term, and reflects the views of Mahayanists and Hindus. I think it's best to clarify the basic meaning of kamma before asking a specific question about dreams.

There was a good thread on it a while ago, though:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1920
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