clw_uk wrote:"Therefore, with the breakup of the body, the wise man does not fare on to body. Not faring onto body, he is freed from birth, aging, and death; freed from sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and dispair, freed from suffering, I say"
The key here is "freed from sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and dispair, freed from suffering, I say"
You cut out the first part of the quote It says " freed from birth, aging, and death
; freed from sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and dispair, freed from suffering, I say"
He's freed from birth - he does not take another body again because he has destroyed ignorance. If he took on another body that would indicate he had not destroyed ignorance, so he'd still be subject to all the other types of suffering.
these are mental dukkha that arise through ignorance. It states that one is only free from them when one does not fare on to another body.
No, it means that if he'd take on another body, he would not really have eliminated ignorance, thus all the other kind of suffering would follow.
If you take it as literal body/death then you assert that one cannot be free from dukkha and enlightened in this moment as this passage states that with the breakup of the body one is freed from suffering, physical and mental.
If one takes on another body, that means one has not eliminated ignorance, therefore one will experience all types of suffering.
The body you inhabit is the result of prior ignorance. When you destroy that ignorance, you still have a body, as explained in the quotes from Thanissaro Bhikkhu previously.
If you take this with birth etc meaning "I" moments then it keeps in line with freedom in this very moment. By not faring onto another false "birth" of a sense of self or "I" then one does not experience dukkha ever again.
One more time: You have this lifetime (Which we shall call 1). You can look at D.O. as occuring moment to moment in this lifetime, and that's ok, but not ONLY in this lifetime. You experienced birth in this lifetime, due to prior craving. So the fact that you're here at all is a result of a previous lifetime. (We'll call that 2). In 2, you also experienced birth, which had to be the result of previous craving (3) and so on. That's one way of explaining the three minimum. We can also go the other way. If you don't become an arahant during thie lifetime, after death, your current ignorance will land you a new body again.
If one awakens during this lifetime, you put an end to future births. But you still have this body that you were born into (due to that previous lifetime). There is still kamma that has to play out, but there's no mental suffering involved. After the physical death of the body, there's no further rebirth because there is no desire to be reborn again. This sutta does not contradict this at all.