Thai Theravadin monks and money

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:21 am

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

A fool from HK
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Postby A fool from HK » Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:35 am

Dear Bhikkhu Pesala,

I am a HK people who use to be a christian,Mahayana Buddhlist and finally become a theravada buddhlist.

Concerning the money issues, may I have your comments on the following cases?

I joined a Mahashi meditation workshop in April this year (held in Macau) which leaded by a bhikkhuni (who served as the English translator for Sayadaw U Pandita before). At the end of the workshop, she accepted the money we given to her.
Also, please see the link, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O22KY1PHdk, the sangha seems to accept money (12:00 of the video, the money is in the red pocket as Chinese tradition).
Did both cases violate the rules? or it is ok as long as no one actually own the money?

Thanks.

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:12 am

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

SarathW
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Postby SarathW » Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:31 am

Hi Friend from HK

When you become a monk you take 10 precepts.
The tenth precept is:
10.Refrain from accepting money.

As far as I know any monk who accept money break the Vinaya rules.
So it is important for the lay person to make sure that they take proper care of the monks.

See the following link for the difference between 8 and 10 precepts.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=20550
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

thepea
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Postby thepea » Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:34 am

How about laypeople giving a monk a credit card to use for monestary repairs?

A fool from HK
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Postby A fool from HK » Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:37 pm


culaavuso
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Postby culaavuso » Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:22 pm



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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:57 pm

There are monks who say that it's allowable to use a credit card because the bank is acting as the monks' steward. I disagree, but it might be allowable if the monk uses the lay supporter's credit card (with their permission of course), as the money still belongs to the lay person. Then, the monk is just informing the retailer what he needs.

It's not something I would like to do — if any money goes missing from the lay person's account then one might be suspected of stealing. Best is to let a lay person pay all the bills from a Trust account managed by lay people, over which the monk has no direct control.

If the lay person has authorised the monk to order goods, then the monk can send the bills to the lay person.
• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

thepea
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Postby thepea » Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:10 am

While doing some flooring repairs to my local Vihara center, I ran out of a certain material. The previous materials I was using were purchased and delivered by a devotee who remained for a few days at my side to provide me with anything necessary. There was one day where he had personal business to tend to and I ran short of a few things. The abbot said he had a credit card at his disposal for emergencies, and he accompanied me to the hardware store and purchased the necessary items. I questioned him in regards to his handling what I considered money, he said he was the only monk who had access to this card, and that without this system the Vihara center could simply not function.

All in all it was a pleasant no-nonsense experience, it did not feel to me that he had done wrong in any way. He seems a very disciplined man from my encounters with him.

From my understanding the cards bill is paid monthly by a lay devotee, I suppose this is just a necessary part of running a meditation centre in this day and age in a non-Buddhist location.

A fool from HK
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Postby A fool from HK » Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:43 am

Would there be any chances for the Theravada Sanghas from different locations of the world to organize a conference for discussion of this controversial issue?

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cooran
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Postby cooran » Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:59 am

I very much doubt it. I, personally, would not support a Bhikkhu who handled, or personally accepted money. Most monasteries have a Lay Committee with a treasurer who accepts financial donations, orders goods and work to be done, and who buys necessities and pays the bills. Lay people bring the food Dana offerings daily.

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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appicchato
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Postby appicchato » Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:07 am

Last edited by appicchato on Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:07 am

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

A fool from HK
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Postby A fool from HK » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:19 am

Thanks. I will support them with food and try to do the Meṇḍaka Allowance when money is involved.

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clw_uk
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Postby clw_uk » Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:28 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

thepea
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Postby thepea » Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:10 am


SarathW
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Postby SarathW » Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:38 am

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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mikenz66
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:53 am

There are a wide variety of ways this plays out. Especially in Thailand. Spend some time there and you'll see some mindboggling variety...

In the West, various monks I've come across have been more or less strict in various aspects of vinanya. I don't dwell on it too much (I'm a lay person, I don't find it useful to be judgemental), and for me it's not the only yardstick for how skilful they are at commuicating Dhamma.

Quite apart from that, it is clear that for a large monastery to continue to function (whether it's ethinc Thai, or an Ahjan Chah affiliate) someone, and it's usually the abbot, has to take on a strong leadership role. These organisations don't just run themselves.

:anjali:
Mike

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pilgrim
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Postby pilgrim » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:26 am

There are monastic schools and universities in Cambodia and Sri Lanka where students, including monks are expected to pay their fees. I'm familiar with one such university in Cambodia as I help raise funds to defray the costs of fees and living expenses for the monks studying at the university in the city. The funds are remitted to a Cambodian Buddhist NGO which then hands out the cash to them as monthly stipends.

In an ideal world, I'm sure the monks would be happy if someone takes care of all their financial needs. Unfortunately this is not the case and the current arrangement is one we live with. Most of these students are from poor rural backgrounds and without these scholarships, many promising students would not even bother to apply for entrance and just languish in the village wats. Not all monks are fortunate enough to have the circumstances to keep good vinaya.

SarathW
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Postby SarathW » Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:29 am

My real concern here is the prosperity of the Sasana (Sangha organisation)
In Sri Lanka many people do not respect monks.
Even if they pretend to respect the monks, they talk behind their back.
The reason is we know that many of the monks are not virtues.
Many monks break the third and the fifth precept.
So they naturally break the second and the fourth precepts.
I don't know any monk who broke the first precepts, except my village monk set fire to the forest and plant banana trees.
He must have killed lot of forest animals.
It is common for monks to eat at night. They have someone to cook for them

I am sure many of you must have read "Boken Buddha"
It is a cry for the help from a western monk.

West is pure land (New to Buddhism).
I like to see the monks in Western Countries to be an example to others.
Third world counties have the natural tendency to follow the west.
:cry:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”


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