Just a quick question.
Are the Four Noble Truths and Noble Eightfold Path enough for englightenment?
In other words, are other teachings, such as, for example, the brahmaviharas, or the 10 parami, indispensable for the attainment the final goal?
If one only follows the FNT and NEP, would that be enough?
FNT and NEP enough?
Re: FNT and NEP enough?
I am sure they are enough Stefan. If you allow a pictorial metaphor, its like the Third Noble Truth opens out into Eightfold Path, and from another angle into the Brahma Viharas. In turn the Paramis overlap with the Brahma Viharas, no's eight and nine ( ? ) of the paramis are not different from two of the Brahma Viharas. They are I think different aspects of the same thing with a slightly different emphasis here and there . So yes , they give all of philosophical underpinning that we need to inform our anapanasati and Brahma Vihara practice.
P.
P.
Re: FNT and NEP enough?
My opinion: It would be enough for those other things to surely follow. These all go together, like a flower goes with it stem and roots.Stefan wrote:If one only follows the FNT and NEP, would that be enough?
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
Re: FNT and NEP enough?
Good analogy Jechbi.
Re: FNT and NEP enough?
I mean, as beneficial as the various practices are, are all of them indispensable? The Fouth Truth states only the NEP as the means for attaining Nibbana, it doesn't mention other practices. Yet the Blessed One taught many other practices; are these indespensable?
Re: FNT and NEP enough?
It seems to me Stefan that the other practices are included in Samma-Samadhi and Samma-Sati.
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Re: FNT and NEP enough?
Imo, the whole thing is right there in the FNT and 8FP. Everything else is additional commentary and aids to recognizing what is clearly spelled out in the FNT and 8FP.
The FNT and 8FP are profoundly simple...but they are also deep and alive. The more we take them to heart the more they reveal, ultimately revealing all.
The FNT and 8FP are profoundly simple...but they are also deep and alive. The more we take them to heart the more they reveal, ultimately revealing all.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss
- Dawa Gyaltsen
---
Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss
- Dawa Gyaltsen
---
Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
Re: FNT and NEP enough?
Hello Stefan and all,
Bhante Henepola Gunaratana says, regarding the Brahma Viharas:
"They are so important in the practice of Vipassana meditation that they are included in the second step of the Noble Eightfold Path. In fact, no concentration is possible without these sublime states of mind because in their absence the mind would be filled with hatred, rigidity, worry, fear, tension and restlessness."
Article here:
http://www.bhavanasociety.org/main/reso ... ess_metta/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
metta
Chris
Bhante Henepola Gunaratana says, regarding the Brahma Viharas:
"They are so important in the practice of Vipassana meditation that they are included in the second step of the Noble Eightfold Path. In fact, no concentration is possible without these sublime states of mind because in their absence the mind would be filled with hatred, rigidity, worry, fear, tension and restlessness."
Article here:
http://www.bhavanasociety.org/main/reso ... ess_metta/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: FNT and NEP enough?
All teachings are aspects of the FNT including the NEP
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Re: FNT and NEP enough?
Greetings,
As Chris pointed out, just because brahma-viharas (and other teachings for that matter) are not explicitly referenced in 4NT or 8NP, they are certainly part of it.
Metta,
Retro.
pink_trike wrote:Imo, the whole thing is right there in the FNT and 8FP. Everything else is additional commentary and aids to recognizing what is clearly spelled out in the FNT and 8FP.
The FNT and 8FP are profoundly simple...but they are also deep and alive. The more we take them to heart the more they reveal, ultimately revealing all.
As Chris pointed out, just because brahma-viharas (and other teachings for that matter) are not explicitly referenced in 4NT or 8NP, they are certainly part of it.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: FNT and NEP enough?
Manapa wrote:All teachings are aspects of the FNT including the NEP
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
Path Press - Ñāṇavīra Thera Dhamma Page - Ajahn Nyanamoli's Dhamma talks
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
Path Press - Ñāṇavīra Thera Dhamma Page - Ajahn Nyanamoli's Dhamma talks