FNT and NEP enough?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Upasaka Sumana
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FNT and NEP enough?

Postby Upasaka Sumana » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:26 pm

Just a quick question.

Are the Four Noble Truths and Noble Eightfold Path enough for englightenment?

In other words, are other teachings, such as, for example, the brahmaviharas, or the 10 parami, indispensable for the attainment the final goal?

If one only follows the FNT and NEP, would that be enough?

:thanks: :namaste:
With metta,
Sumana (Stephen)

The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall.
~Nelson Mandela

PeterB
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Re: FNT and NEP enough?

Postby PeterB » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:49 pm

I am sure they are enough Stefan. If you allow a pictorial metaphor, its like the Third Noble Truth opens out into Eightfold Path, and from another angle into the Brahma Viharas. In turn the Paramis overlap with the Brahma Viharas, no's eight and nine ( ? ) of the paramis are not different from two of the Brahma Viharas. They are I think different aspects of the same thing with a slightly different emphasis here and there . So yes , they give all of philosophical underpinning that we need to inform our anapanasati and Brahma Vihara practice.

:anjali:

P.

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Jechbi
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Re: FNT and NEP enough?

Postby Jechbi » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:54 pm

Stefan wrote:If one only follows the FNT and NEP, would that be enough?
My opinion: It would be enough for those other things to surely follow. These all go together, like a flower goes with it stem and roots.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.

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Re: FNT and NEP enough?

Postby PeterB » Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:08 pm

Good analogy Jechbi.

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Upasaka Sumana
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Re: FNT and NEP enough?

Postby Upasaka Sumana » Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:25 pm

I mean, as beneficial as the various practices are, are all of them indispensable? The Fouth Truth states only the NEP as the means for attaining Nibbana, it doesn't mention other practices. Yet the Blessed One taught many other practices; are these indespensable?
With metta,
Sumana (Stephen)

The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall.
~Nelson Mandela

PeterB
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Re: FNT and NEP enough?

Postby PeterB » Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:38 pm

It seems to me Stefan that the other practices are included in Samma-Samadhi and Samma-Sati.

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pink_trike
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Re: FNT and NEP enough?

Postby pink_trike » Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:41 pm

Imo, the whole thing is right there in the FNT and 8FP. Everything else is additional commentary and aids to recognizing what is clearly spelled out in the FNT and 8FP.

The FNT and 8FP are profoundly simple...but they are also deep and alive. The more we take them to heart the more they reveal, ultimately revealing all.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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cooran
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Re: FNT and NEP enough?

Postby cooran » Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:26 pm

Hello Stefan and all,

Bhante Henepola Gunaratana says, regarding the Brahma Viharas:

"They are so important in the practice of Vipassana meditation that they are included in the second step of the Noble Eightfold Path. In fact, no concentration is possible without these sublime states of mind because in their absence the mind would be filled with hatred, rigidity, worry, fear, tension and restlessness."
Article here:
http://www.bhavanasociety.org/main/reso ... ess_metta/

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Cittasanto
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Re: FNT and NEP enough?

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:08 pm

All teachings are aspects of the FNT including the NEP
“Mendicants, these two [types of persons] defame the Tathāgata.
(The mendicants asked) What are the two [types of persons]?
(The Lord Buddha responded) The malicious, or the inwardly angry, and the one with (blind) faith or the one who holds things incorrectly.
Mendicants, these two [types of persons] defame the Tathāgata.”
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
"Others will misconstrue reality based on personal perspectives, firmly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our personal perspectives, nor firmly holding them, but easily discarded."

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Paul Davy
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Re: FNT and NEP enough?

Postby Paul Davy » Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:31 pm

Greetings,

pink_trike wrote:Imo, the whole thing is right there in the FNT and 8FP. Everything else is additional commentary and aids to recognizing what is clearly spelled out in the FNT and 8FP.

The FNT and 8FP are profoundly simple...but they are also deep and alive. The more we take them to heart the more they reveal, ultimately revealing all.


:goodpost:

As Chris pointed out, just because brahma-viharas (and other teachings for that matter) are not explicitly referenced in 4NT or 8NP, they are certainly part of it.

Metta,
Retro. :)
What is the final conviction that comes when radical attention is razor-edge sharp? That the object of the mind is mind-made (manomaya). (Ven. Ñāṇananda)

Having understood name-and-form, which is a product of prolificity,
And which is the root of all malady within and without,
He is released from bondage to the root of all maladies,
That Such-like-one is truly known as 'the one who has understood'.
(Snp 3.6)

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BlackBird
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Re: FNT and NEP enough?

Postby BlackBird » Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:58 pm

Manapa wrote:All teachings are aspects of the FNT including the NEP


:anjali:
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta


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