Refuge in Oneself

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Ngawang Drolma.
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Refuge in Oneself

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:53 am



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retrofuturist
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Re: Refuge in Oneself

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:01 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: Refuge in Oneself

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:14 am

Hi Retro,

Yes, that's the topic! Thanks. Wonderful words from Ven K. Sri Dhammananda. It really places the responsibility squarely where it belongs, doesn't it?
Thanks for reposting it here :)

Best,
Drolma
Last edited by Ngawang Drolma. on Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:42 am, edited 2 times in total.


kannada
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Re: Refuge in Oneself

Postby kannada » Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:27 am

Just a view - nothing more...

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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: Refuge in Oneself

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:08 am



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cooran
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Re: Refuge in Oneself

Postby cooran » Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:53 am

Hello all,

In the Dhammapada, the Buddha taught:

Dhammapada Verse 160 - Kumarakassapamatuttheri Vatthu

Atta hi attano natho
ko hi natho paro siya
attana hi sudantena
natham labhati dullabham.


Verse 160: One indeed is one's own refuge; how can others be a refuge to one? With oneself thoroughly tamed, one can attain a refuge (i.e., Arahatta Phala), which is so difficult to attain.
http://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/ve ... ?verse=160

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Re: Refuge in Oneself

Postby kannada » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:00 am

Just a view - nothing more...

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imagemarie
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Re: Refuge in Oneself

Postby imagemarie » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:44 am


kannada
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Re: Refuge in Oneself

Postby kannada » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:55 am

Imagemarie hi...

Exactly... Who(m) needs a refuge when there is no-one to shelter?

Best wishes

k
Just a view - nothing more...

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cooran
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Re: Refuge in Oneself

Postby cooran » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:18 am

And then there are the rest of us - just following what the Buddha taught, and the Sangha of Bhikkhus so faithfuly preserved:

33. "Therefore, Ananda, be islands unto yourselves, refuges unto yourselves, seeking no external refuge; with the Dhamma as your island, the Dhamma as your refuge, seeking no other refuge.
"And how, Ananda, is a bhikkhu an island unto himself, a refuge unto himself, seeking no external refuge; with the Dhamma as his island, the Dhamma as his refuge, seeking no other refuge?
34. "When he dwells contemplating the body in the body, earnestly, clearly comprehending, and mindfully, after having overcome desire and sorrow in regard to the world; when he dwells contemplating feelings in feelings, the mind in the mind, and mental objects in mental objects, earnestly, clearly comprehending, and mindfully, after having overcome desire and sorrow in regard to the world, then, truly, he is an island unto himself, a refuge unto himself, seeking no external refuge; having the Dhamma as his island, the Dhamma as his refuge, seeking no other refuge.
35. "Those bhikkhus of mine, Ananda, who now or after I am gone, abide as an island unto themselves, as a refuge unto themselves, seeking no other refuge; having the Dhamma as their island and refuge, seeking no other refuge: it is they who will become the highest, 20 if they have the desire to learn."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .vaji.html

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

kannada
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Re: Refuge in Oneself

Postby kannada » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:33 am

Just a view - nothing more...

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acinteyyo
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Re: Refuge in Oneself

Postby acinteyyo » Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:18 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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Re: Refuge in Oneself

Postby christopher::: » Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:40 pm

Last edited by christopher::: on Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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imagemarie
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Re: Refuge in Oneself

Postby imagemarie » Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:19 pm

This might be an irrelevant thought.. forgive me. :smile:

But when I was first pregnant many years ago I felt, for the first time (and perhaps uniquely), that "I" had to take a backseat.
A surrender of sorts. I felt "my" "self" as process, in which I had to trust. I felt that all was well and that all manner
of things would be well!

This profound recognition of process..of intelligence...of mind...I don't know what name to give this "knowing", but is "this" not
some sort of "refuge"? I feel I should be putting everything, "everything" in inverted commas here!!

I dunno.Seems there's a lot of tail-chasing going on. Self/other.. Anatta/atta.

And that this is unavoidable. :juggling:

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Rui Sousa
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Re: Refuge in Oneself

Postby Rui Sousa » Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:04 pm

In my understanding of anatta we are a bundle of five aggregates, but we do exist.

There is no self in that existence, but the existence is real. That existence has the means to attain final liberation, we can take the three jewels as our refuge and trust that we are capable of achieving that liberation.

So I see no incoherence in saying that we are inlands who depend only in our ability to see the truth, and at the same time that there is no self.
With Metta

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acinteyyo
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Re: Refuge in Oneself

Postby acinteyyo » Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:26 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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Re: Refuge in Oneself

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:41 pm


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acinteyyo
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Re: Refuge in Oneself

Postby acinteyyo » Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:02 pm

:goodpost:
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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cooran
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Re: Refuge in Oneself

Postby cooran » Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:13 pm

Hello all,

'The Buddha, in explaining his doctrine, sometimes used conventional language and sometimes the philosophical mode of expression which is in accordance with undeluded insight into reality. In that ultimate sense, existence is a mere process of physical and mental phenomena within which, or beyond which, no real ego-entity nor any abiding substance can ever be found. Thus, whenever the suttas speak of man, woman or person, or of the rebirth of a being, this must not be taken as being valid in the ultimate sense, but as a mere conventional mode of speech (vohāra-vacana).
........ the Buddha repeatedly mentioned his reservations when using conventional speech, e.g. in D. 9: "These are merely names, expressions, turns of speech, designations in common use in the world, which the Perfect One (Tathāgata) uses without misapprehending them." See also S. I. 25.'
http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/n_r/paramattha.htm

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: Refuge in Oneself

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:31 pm

There's a thread here in the "Discovering Theravada" section I started a while back called "The Not Self Strategy."
In that thread we discussed the distinction between no self and not self. I linked to an article by a Bikkhu that was called "The Not Self Strategy."
Maybe that would be a nice read too, for kannada. This minor difference of one letter in that phrase changes the meaning a lot. I hadn't paid as much attention to my phrasing before that as I do now.

Best,
Drolma

:anjali:



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