Element Confusion

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clw_uk
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Element Confusion

Postby clw_uk » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:10 pm

In the Mahapunnama Sutta - MK the buddha says;

"The four great elements, bhikkhu, are the cause and condition for the manifestation of the material form aggregate"

I cant work out how the elements are the cause for the material form, arent the four elements earth, fire, wind, water with, for example, earth just standing for skin, nail etc and so just characteristics of the material aggregate?

He who binds to himself a joy
Does the wingèd life destroy;
But he who kisses the joy as it flies
Lives in eternity's sunrise.

William Blake

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retrofuturist
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Re: Element Confusion

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:54 pm

Greetings,

From memory, I think earth refers to solidity, water refers to cohesion, fire refers to heat, and air refers to movement.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"When we transcend one level of truth, the new level becomes what is true for us. The previous one is now false. What one experiences may not be what is experienced by the world in general, but that may well be truer. (Ven. Nanananda)

“I hope, Anuruddha, that you are all living in concord, with mutual appreciation, without disputing, blending like milk and water, viewing each other with kindly eyes.” (MN 31)

Never again...

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Dhammanando
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Re: Element Confusion

Postby Dhammanando » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:20 pm

Hi Craig,

clw_uk wrote:I cant work out how the elements are the cause for the material form


Each of the four great primaries serves as a condition for the arising of the others and collectively they are a condition for the arising of secondary/derivative materiality (e.g., sense organs, gender, life faculty etc.).

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
Sundɑrɑromɑ̄nɑ
Pɑli Romɑnisɑtion


sɑrɑ̄: ɑ ɑ̄ i ī u ū e o
kɑɳȶɑjɑ̄: k ƙ ɡ ɠ ŋ
tɑ̄lujɑ̄: c ƈ j j̛ ɲ
mudɗɑjɑ̄: ʈ ȶ ɖ ȡ ɳ
dɑntɑjɑ̄: t ƭ d ɗ n
oʈȶɑjɑ̄: p ƥ b ɓ m
ɑvɑɡɡɑ̄: y r l v s h ł
niɡɡɑhītɑ̊: ɑ̊ i̊ ů

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clw_uk
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Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales, United Kingdom

Re: Element Confusion

Postby clw_uk » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:20 pm

Thank you, do you know how they are the origin of material aggregate?

He who binds to himself a joy
Does the wingèd life destroy;
But he who kisses the joy as it flies
Lives in eternity's sunrise.

William Blake

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Dhammanando
Posts: 2457
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Wat Doi Phra Koed, Chom Thong, Chiang Mai

Re: Element Confusion

Postby Dhammanando » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:57 pm

Hi Craig,

clw_uk wrote:Thank you, do you know how they are the origin of material aggregate?


The material aggregate is simply a name for the four great primaries and the secondary matter that arises with the great primaries as its proximate cause.

For a full account of rūpa see chapter 6 of the Abhidhammatthsangaha:
http://mail.saigon.com/~anson/ebud/abhisgho/abhis06.htm

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
Sundɑrɑromɑ̄nɑ
Pɑli Romɑnisɑtion


sɑrɑ̄: ɑ ɑ̄ i ī u ū e o
kɑɳȶɑjɑ̄: k ƙ ɡ ɠ ŋ
tɑ̄lujɑ̄: c ƈ j j̛ ɲ
mudɗɑjɑ̄: ʈ ȶ ɖ ȡ ɳ
dɑntɑjɑ̄: t ƭ d ɗ n
oʈȶɑjɑ̄: p ƥ b ɓ m
ɑvɑɡɡɑ̄: y r l v s h ł
niɡɡɑhītɑ̊: ɑ̊ i̊ ů


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