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Zazen and Vipassana - Dhamma Wheel

Zazen and Vipassana

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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clw_uk
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Zazen and Vipassana

Postby clw_uk » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:41 pm

Dont know if this has already been brought up, is Zazen and vipassana the same?
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jcsuperstar
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Re: Zazen and Vipassana

Postby jcsuperstar » Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:57 am

za= sitting
zen= meditation

so i guess it could be

the rinzai version of zazen is pretty much just anapanasati
the soto version is shikantaza
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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clw_uk
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Re: Zazen and Vipassana

Postby clw_uk » Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:29 pm

Thanks Jc

I know you have practiced Soto Zen, did you find and similarity between the meditation method/experience?


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jcsuperstar
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Re: Zazen and Vipassana

Postby jcsuperstar » Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:23 pm

สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Kare
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Re: Zazen and Vipassana

Postby Kare » Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:24 pm

Mettāya,
Kåre

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retrofuturist
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Re: Zazen and Vipassana

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:06 pm

Greetings,

If my observations at E-Sangha and Zen Forum International are anything to go by, there's vastly different opinions on this matter.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Zazen and Vipassana

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:33 pm

If my understanding is correct, the etymology of Zen derives from the Pāli word jhāna. So, I guess Zen means Samatha rather than Vipassanā.

IMO the instruction to “just sit” is dumb. It disregards all of the detailed instructions given in the Satipatthāna Sutta. Using the right method and acquiring skill in using it requires more specific instruction than “just sit” or “just watch your mind.”

Don't rely only on books or what you read on forums, but take the trouble to spend a significant amount of time with a teacher who can explain the practical method in detail.

You can learn a lot from good books like , but it is still more efficient to get personal instruction.
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jcsuperstar
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Re: Zazen and Vipassana

Postby jcsuperstar » Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:32 am

สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Dan74
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Re: Zazen and Vipassana

Postby Dan74 » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:17 pm

_/|\_

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Jechbi
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Re: Zazen and Vipassana

Postby Jechbi » Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:52 am

The question is whether the results are the same. That probably will depend on the kamma involved, I guess.

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Dan74
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Re: Zazen and Vipassana

Postby Dan74 » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:58 pm

_/|\_

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bodom
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Re: Zazen and Vipassana

Postby bodom » Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:06 pm

Vipassana = Sit on cushion watch breath. Come back to breath when mind wanders.
Zazen = Sit on cushion watch breath. Come back to breath when mind wanders.

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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retrofuturist
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Re: Zazen and Vipassana

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:08 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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bodom
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Re: Zazen and Vipassana

Postby bodom » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:13 am

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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Dan74
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Re: Zazen and Vipassana

Postby Dan74 » Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:31 am

Zazen is not concerned with developing jhanas but rather with realisation of the nature of mind (related to the Theravada anatta).

Mindfulness of the breath and concentration are only the prerequisites, before the attention is turned to what is before thought.

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christopher:::
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Re: Zazen and Vipassana

Postby christopher::: » Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:00 am

"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009


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