Seeing Impermanence

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.

Seeing Impermanence

Postby sundara » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:50 am

How do you see impermanence without getting all stressed out and starting to give out unwanted thoughts.
sundara
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:55 pm

Re: Seeing Impermanence

Postby appicchato » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:52 am

Easy...put a freshly cut flower on the table for a week...the same scenario, in one shape or another, applies to everything...that's just the way it is...having no control over this MO there's really no need for stress nor unwanted thoughts...not easily done for everyone, but doable...
User avatar
appicchato
 
Posts: 1512
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:47 am
Location: Bridge on the River Kwae

Re: Seeing Impermanence

Postby rowyourboat » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:25 am

..by developing the 4 divine abidings, by developing concentration/samadhi at the same time, by being mindful of our thoughts and mindstates as we contemplate anicca
..by knowing the way forward in the dhamma is being facing the truth and not by avoiding it
..by knowing that the disenchantment/revulsion eases into dispassion which further lets go into cessation -then there is release.
..by knowing other before you and many after you will go through the same path
..by remembering that we are shocked by anicca because our minds still cling- and that gives rise to suffering- if there was no clinging we will be able to accept it without a problem
..by remembering we are bringing our minds in line with the truth of reality and that this will lead to lessening of our suffering in the future
..by remembering anicca is the key to progress in the path and the unique thing the buddha spent countless aeons developing the perfections to rediscover and teach us

with metta
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
rowyourboat
 
Posts: 1949
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Seeing Impermanence

Postby sundara » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:36 pm

What about seeing impermanence in the five aggregates. How do you do that?
sundara
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:55 pm

Re: Seeing Impermanence

Postby rowyourboat » Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:09 pm

there is no quick answer to that - you would have to work our way through the insight knowledges one by one.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... gress.html
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
rowyourboat
 
Posts: 1949
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Seeing Impermanence

Postby Dmytro » Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:58 pm

Hi Sundara,

What about seeing impermanence in the five aggregates. How do you do that?


The short answer is given in Chachakka sutta:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

The long answer is given in the thread:

http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index. ... t&p=312610

Best wishes,
Dmytro
User avatar
Dmytro
 
Posts: 1161
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:24 pm
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Re: Seeing Impermanence

Postby Jechbi » Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:09 pm

appicchato wrote:Easy...put a freshly cut flower on the table for a week...the same scenario, in one shape or another, applies to everything...that's just the way it is...having no control over this MO there's really no need for stress nor unwanted thoughts...not easily done for everyone, but doable...

Perfectamundo.
:clap:
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
User avatar
Jechbi
 
Posts: 1268
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:38 am

Re: Seeing Impermanence

Postby Hoja » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:11 pm

appicchato wrote:Easy...put a freshly cut flower on the table for a week...the same scenario, in one shape or another, applies to everything...that's just the way it is...having no control over this MO there's really no need for stress nor unwanted thoughts


Excelent and simple! Thank you Bhante!
User avatar
Hoja
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:08 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: Seeing Impermanence

Postby adosa » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:05 pm

Hi sundara,


Another way to look at, and I hope it helps, but if it weren't for change you wouldn't even be here. Nor would anything that you enjoy. So to wish for a static slice of time is in my view a bit selfish. To me this whole thing of impermanence provides me with occasional glimpses of peace although I qualify that by saying I still cling with the best of them. It's this principle of change that gives us hope for ultimate release.

Keep practicing, friend.

adosa
"To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas" - Dhammapada 183
User avatar
adosa
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: Seeing Impermanence

Postby sundara » Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:50 pm

It's all very well but how is that going to resolve my predicament as a human being.
sundara
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:55 pm

Re: Seeing Impermanence

Postby acinteyyo » Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:16 pm

sundara wrote:What about seeing impermanence in the five aggregates. How do you do that?

suddenly there is this sentence you wrote and I saw it. there is perception, there is a feeling, there is consciousness of the sentence and of this perception and of the feeling, there is a thought... oh... :oops: what happened these things have changed... another feeling, I see this written words, I see myself writing, what a lot of perception and consciousness, more and more feelings... where is that feeling from the beginning? it allready ceased, but there is consciousness of rememberance of that ceased feeling... oh what a pity there were things and at the end of this post, when nobody reads it, they're all gone...
it's really hard to see impermanence... :tongue:

best wishes, acinteyyo
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Both formerly, monks, and now, it is just suffering that I make known and the ending of suffering.

:anjali:
User avatar
acinteyyo
 
Posts: 928
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Neuburg/Donau, Germany

Re: Seeing Impermanence

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:21 am

seeing impermanence deeply will allow you to let go deeply. Hence lowering your attachment to things. This means that you will not get hurt when those things you are attached to pass away (as they eventually will). However this does not mean you will not have compassion or kindness- far from it- when your troubles have faded and when you see those same troubles in others there will be more space for compassion. All your sufferings are impermanent- hence it becomes easier not to get caught up in this, if this bit of wisdom is working deeply in the mind. Noting impermanence of everything in your body and mind you come to the understanding that there is no self, but a collection of process- hence death looses its meaning, it grip over you- there is no one to die, just processes continuing in a different direction. You can also break down 'big' concept such as 'old age', 'sickness', seeing how when we label something, the label brings with it certain values, over and above the experience of phenomena. We can see that the phenomena itself is not as bad as the label implies. We being to see that these labels aren't fact, but just thoughts trying to make sense of reality but not quite getting there, often coming to wrong conclusions and projecting 'facts'on to experience which simply aren't true. So the existential questions of old age, sickness, death and suffering gets answered.
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
rowyourboat
 
Posts: 1949
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Seeing Impermanence

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:23 am

A Buddha is not required to say that everything is impermanent. Ask any man on the street. However a buddha is required to find a path through and beyond impermanence. This is where the meditative practices of vipassana/insight comes in.
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
rowyourboat
 
Posts: 1949
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Seeing Impermanence

Postby sundara » Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:27 am

Apart from seeing the flowers decay, what other things in the 5 aggregates are beneficial to contemplate impermanence that can lead to calm?
sundara
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:55 pm

Re: Seeing Impermanence

Postby rowyourboat » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:55 pm

Dear Sundara
There is no end to seeing impermanence -atleast until we are fully enlightened. If you just observe the changing sights, sounds, sensations, smells, thoughts, and tastes- try to remain aware of the fact that they keep changing second by second- this pace of seeing anicca is important. It is not knowing or seeing for a little while that things are anicca- but it needs to be developed and seen repeatedly, in an continuous manner for minutes, hours, days weeks and months. Tranquility of the mind needs to be developed as well along side- one pointedness arising from mindfulness of the breath for example. This will nicely balance the insight practice. Anicca can be understood at increasingly greater depth. It is the depth of the penetration of this truth which will be transformative.
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
rowyourboat
 
Posts: 1949
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Seeing Impermanence

Postby pink_trike » Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:17 pm

Observe the passing of the seasons throughout the course of the year...in Spring everything moves, in Summer there is blossoming, in Fall there is decline, in Winter there is dormancy. Observe that day always naturally and with ease becomes night. Observe that every breathe you take is naturally given back.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
User avatar
pink_trike
 
Posts: 1038
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:29 am

Re: Seeing Impermanence

Postby sundara » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:22 pm

´Don't we need to use conditionality before seeing impermanence. In the books they say that we need to use conditionality before seeing impermanence. I don't know.
sundara
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:55 pm

Re: Seeing Impermanence

Postby kidd » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:48 pm

Start by looking on the bright side; the pains, the sorrows, the angers and the fears that interfere with your happiness in the present are all temporary.

:juggling:
kidd
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:20 am

Re: Seeing Impermanence

Postby rowyourboat » Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:23 pm

Hello Sundara
If you are prepared to put some effort into this rather than have the odd impermanence experience, you should go all the way, develop a unified calm mind, start vipassana by seeing mentality-materiality (nama, rupa) and then see causality. Then see the three characteristics (anicca, dukkha, anatta). This is not easy but it is often difficult to communicate the importance of this process. You need to have faith in the Buddha, dhamma and sangha- that this is the path to cessation of suffering, and that there is unsatisfactoriness. Your ethics/sila needs to be quite good. You need to have motivation to put in regular daily practice. You will need to have faith in someone who can guide you and ideally a group of meditators to belong to. Only then will the results described in the suttas come about. Are you prepared to go the whole hog? You can do the rest of the suggestions in this thread over the next few days. But what is mentioned above will take weeks,months if not years. As you can imagine there will be a difference in the outcome as well. Are you up for it?
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
rowyourboat
 
Posts: 1949
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Seeing Impermanence

Postby appicchato » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:56 pm

:goodpost: :pig:
User avatar
appicchato
 
Posts: 1512
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:47 am
Location: Bridge on the River Kwae

Next

Return to Theravada Meditation

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests