Sorry but you lost me here. Pardon my ignorance. I have to agree with the Venerable Appicchato that it is clinging or craving (or aversion) that makes these things dukkha. They are just events. They are the nature of the universe but we want a different outcome, not because of misconduct, but because that is the way we are wired. To me misconduct indicates something we could control with effort. However, we can't control craving. Not yet at least. I do believe it is an evolutionary survival thing. But I digress.
So these things are dukkha. Not in and of themselves but because of clinging, craving and adversion. Until the switch is flipped and we see reality all the way to our core, beyond our intellect, they will continue to be dukkha. They are not dukkha to an Arahant because Arahants no longer have the roots of craving, aversion, and delusion.
That's my view but somehow I think I missed the mark of your question as it has been answered this way before. So please, what is your answer? It seems like you have one but have yet to present it. I'd like to know because now I have more dukkha trying to crack this riddle.
I try to make it more clear.
DN22 Maha-satipatthana Sutta wrote: "Now what is the noble truth of stress? Birth is stressful, aging is stressful, death is stressful; sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair are stressful; association with the unbeloved is stressful; separation from the loved is stressful; not getting what one wants is stressful. In short, the five clinging-aggregates are stressful.
Here the Buddha told us what
is dukkha. Birth, aging, death and so on... in short, the five clinging-aggregates are dukkha. Or here:
Dhammapada (277-279) wrote:Sabbe sankhárá aniccá; All determinations are impermanent;
sabbe sankhárá dukkhá; All determinations are suffering (unpleasurable, stressful);
sabbe dhammá anattá. All things are not-self.
The Buddha told us again what
Somewhere else (I can't remember at the moment where exactly) the Buddha told us:
"Whatever counts as impermanent is suffering and whatever counts as suffering is not-self."
This tells us again what
is dukkha, or what has to be seen as dukkha.
This for example tells us not that something is dukkha because of its impermanance. It only tells us that something which is impermanant is dukkha, too. Nothing more, and not why it is dukkha.
What I'm asking for is now why
are those things dukkha?
I have an idea, but I think I'm unable to explain it so that someone will understand. It's difficult enough for me to explain it in german and even more for me in english. Furthermore:
DN22 Maha-satipatthana Sutta wrote:"And what is the noble truth of the origination of stress? The craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensuality, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming.
The second noble truths tells us how or why dukkha arises or rather from what dukkha originates. In other words how or why those things mentioned above arise or from what they originate. But in my eyes the second noble truth does not tell us why
those things mentioned above are
I may missed a sutta where the Buddha said something like this: "because of this, those things are dukkha (or have to be seen as dukkha)". Does someone know such a statement?
In my eyes the Buddha did not say: "the five clinging-aggregates are dukkha because of craving". As I understand it, the Buddha said: "from craving the five clinging-aggregates originate and the five clinging-aggregates are dukkha."
No explanation again, why the five clinging-aggregates are dukkha.
I'm of the opinion that to end dukkha it is essential to understand dukkha. Not only to know that the Buddha said this or that is dukkha, but to have fully understood what is dukkha and why is it dukkha. How can one understand the other three noble truths when one still doesn't understand the first one?! This is my intention.
Take a look in my signature. This is what the Buddha said about his teachings.
Ask as much as you want, if it's still not clear for you.
best wishes, acinteyyo