Islam

A place to discuss casual topics amongst spiritual friends.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Islam

Post by Ceisiwr »

Personally i believe that Islam is one of the greatest tragedies of the world. It has so much potential to be a driving force of good in this world if it wasn't misinterpreted by so many psycho-fanatical, power-hungry nut jobs

Thats the real question though isnt it, are they misinterpreting the Koran/hadith or are they holding true to it. Based on my reading of the texts of Islam, as well as the history of it, they seem to interpreting it correctly




metta
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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fivebells
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Re: Islam

Post by fivebells »

clw_uk wrote:Im not usualy one to defend America but there is quite a bit of difference here. You cannot find any warrant for injustice, murder or brutality in The Declaration of Independence, in Islam you can via its central books and the actions of its founder
They went to war to obtain independence. That is a guarantee of violence, murder and brutality.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Islam

Post by Ceisiwr »

fivebells wrote:
clw_uk wrote:Im not usualy one to defend America but there is quite a bit of difference here. You cannot find any warrant for injustice, murder or brutality in The Declaration of Independence, in Islam you can via its central books and the actions of its founder
They went to war to obtain independence. That is a guarantee of violence, murder and brutality.

They went to war yes, but there is no warrant for muder, brutality etc in the declaration
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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fivebells
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Re: Islam

Post by fivebells »

It makes no difference that it's not in the documents. There is a warrant to war, because the country is founded on war, and was strengthened through war. War is generally celebrated as glorious over here.
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fivebells
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Re: Islam

Post by fivebells »

(Hell, it's in the national anthem.)
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Ben
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Re: Islam

Post by Ben »

Hi Jechbi
Jechbi wrote: On a side note, we had a thread here a few months ago about Christianity that was made invisible because it became so divisive. That thread had a mix of very insightful posts as well as some offensive ones, but the whole thing went down the tubes because folks couldn't keep the discussion productive. I hope the same fate doesn't await this thread.
:anjali:
So do I!

Dear members,
Posts that dispariage another religion will be removed without warning and repeat offenders disciplined.
In posting on this subject, I ask you to keep in mind the words of Emporor Ashoka:
Beloved-of-the-Gods, King Piyadasi, honors both ascetics and the householders of all religions, and he honors them with gifts and honors of various kinds.[22] But Beloved-of-the-Gods, King Piyadasi, does not value gifts and honors as much as he values this -- that there should be growth in the essentials of all religions.[23] Growth in essentials can be done in different ways, but all of them have as their root restraint in speech, that is, not praising one's own religion, or condemning the religion of others without good cause. And if there is cause for criticism, it should be done in a mild way. But it is better to honor other religions for this reason. By so doing, one's own religion benefits, and so do other religions, while doing otherwise harms one's own religion and the religions of others. Whoever praises his own religion, due to excessive devotion, and condemns others with the thought "Let me glorify my own religion," only harms his own religion. Therefore contact (between religions) is good.[24] One should listen to and respect the doctrines professed by others. Beloved-of-the-Gods, King Piyadasi, desires that all should be well-learned in the good doctrines of other religions.

Those who are content with their own religion should be told this: Beloved-of-the-Gods, King Piyadasi, does not value gifts and honors as much as he values that there should be growth in the essentials of all religions. And to this end many are working -- Dhamma Mahamatras, Mahamatras in charge of the women's quarters, officers in charge of outlying areas, and other such officers. And the fruit of this is that one's own religion grows and the Dhamma is illuminated also.
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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retrofuturist
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Re: Islam

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

King Asoka was cool. 8-)

Thanks Ben.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: Islam

Post by Khalil Bodhi »

Sadhu! Sadhu! Sadhu!
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

The Stoic Buddhist: https://www.quora.com/q/dwxmcndlgmobmeu ... pOR2p0uAdH
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http://khalilbodhi.wordpress.com
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pink_trike
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Re: Islam

Post by pink_trike »

What Asoka says if very valuable and skillful advise. However, it should also be noted that religion as we know it today is very different than it was during his reign. We live in a declining time full of corruption and worldly obsessions - a time when even religion turns sour. Turning a blind eye to the negative effects of religion as it is now understood, institutionalized, and exploited shouldn't be ignored. Asoka asks that we don't compare in order to elevate our own religion, and that any needed critical analysis of religions should be done respectfully and presumably, honestly. The idea that all religions are good and above criticism is a classic case of idiot compassion (ineffective, unskillful) and denial.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
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Senex
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Re: Islam

Post by Senex »

Chris wrote:
Senex wrote:Islam is a HUGE force in the world today, for better or for worse, and for the most part it is associated with fear and jihad. I would like to know what your personal thoughts are of Islam.

Personally i believe that Islam is one of the greatest tragedies of the world. It has so much potential to be a driving force of good in this world if it wasn't misinterpreted by so many psycho-fanatical, power-hungry nut jobs. I am by no means an expert, however I do plan on buying a Koran so I can become more learned on the subject since it is so huge and well... in your face at the moment. Violence will never be appeased by violence. Only through compassion and understanding, as well as the removal of ignorance can we even begin to work through a problem that has caused so much bloodshed and terror.

SO

What do you think of Islam?
I know a lot of Muslims. They are among the most peaceful and compassionate beings I have had the privilege to come across. Most Muslims are peaceful and caring.
Why not actually try and meet some in your area, get to know them as ordinary neighbours and everyday people rather than seeing them through the stories and labels from the media, and find out how uninformed your evident prejudices are?

karuna,
Chris



I do believe that most Muslims really are great human beings, I only meant the handful who do take things to the extreme. Sorry if my initial post was at all pig-headed, I do want to become more knowledgeable on the subject as there is a lot of paranoia going on about Islam which I would like to get past of. I'm here to learn!
Words exist because of meaning; once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words so I can have a word with him?

Zhuangzi, chapter 26
(B. Watson, The Complete Works of Chuang-tzu, 302)
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Ben
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Re: Islam

Post by Ben »

Hi Pink
pink_trike wrote:What Asoka says if very valuable and skillful advise. However, it should also be noted that religion as we know it today is very different than it was during his reign. We live in a declining time full of corruption and worldly obsessions - a time when even religion turns sour. Turning a blind eye to the negative effects of religion as it is now understood, institutionalized, and exploited shouldn't be ignored. Asoka asks that we don't compare in order to elevate our own religion, and that any needed critical analysis of religions should be done respectfully and presumably, honestly. The idea that all religions are good and above criticism is a classic case of idiot compassion (ineffective, unskillful) and denial.
I'm not quoting Ashoka so that we can engage in idiot compassion. I highlight Ashoka's remarks to remind people of not only the importance of developing tolerance but also the gold standard of encouraging those of other religions to engage fully all that is beautiful, profound and remarkable with their practices.

I think in any discussion of another religion we do so honestly and respectfully and not through the prism of our own prejudices and ignorance.

I want to make it clear that although Dhamma Wheel is a venue for the discussion of the Theravada (and a variety of other non-Theravada specific subjects) by all those who are interested - Dhamma Wheel is not a ghetto for Theravadins (or non-Theravadins) to express sectarian remarks. This is something that some members in the past have had problems with, believing that membership to Dhamma Wheel or association as 'Theravadin' gave them free licence to dispariage the Mahayana or Vajrayana or other religions.

I am happy for other religions to be discussed but sectarianism isn't tolerated.
Kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
Mawkish1983
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Re: Islam

Post by Mawkish1983 »

Rock on :) I'm glad you're watching this thread Ben et al.
Individual
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Re: Islam

Post by Individual »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

King Asoka was cool. 8-)

Thanks Ben.

Metta,
Retro. :)
To a point... Within reason.

There are certainly groups of people who would not fall under Asoka's argument, like the kinds of Muslims who carried out 9/11. While they don't reflect Islam as a whole, their specific form of violently intolerant Islam should not be honored.

Religions don't tend to become popular without some attractive, noble qualities about them. So every religion is honorable in some sense, but it's still best for people to be honest about the flaws of their own religion and of others. Because if we're all non-critical of eachother because we want a good reputation, then that'd be like a politician or businessman who avoids stepping on any toes merely for his own selfish interest. "I won't criticize Islam, so people won't criticize Buddhism". But what if one or BOTH are actually DESERVING of criticism?

The best thing to do is to sometimes speak the truth even when it is critical of another religion or another person. Without criticism of any kind, religious problems can never be addressed. But I guess you could say that it's possible to "honor" a religion while still being critical of it.
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra
Individual
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Re: Islam

Post by Individual »

Senex wrote: I do believe that most Muslims really are great human beings, I only meant the handful who do take things to the extreme. Sorry if my initial post was at all pig-headed, I do want to become more knowledgeable on the subject as there is a lot of paranoia going on about Islam which I would like to get past of. I'm here to learn!
I think they have some great qualities, being very hospitable, recognizing the importance of family, a sense of loyalty, a sense of honor not found in the west, but in the Middle East, they are extremely backwards and this is somewhat reflected among Muslim immigrants. I remember a while ago there was a survey asking British Muslims whether they thought the London subway bombings were justified and a large minority said yes. They were the minority, but still, it was a disturbingly large minority, large enough to make it reasonable for people to be worried about religious tensions arising from Muslim immigration. In France, of course, the riots were partially sparked because of this... Partially because the French government and French people engaged in religious discrimination, but also because many Muslim immigrants are unfortunately extremists.

To demonstrate this, by the way, there's quite a bit of footage from Middle Eastern media broadcasts here:
http://www.memritv.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From all different countries...
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra
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cooran
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Re: Islam

Post by cooran »

Hello all,

Let's not have broad sweeping statements about Muslims in other countries in past years.
Let's talk about your own experience with Muslims in your community.

I have known Muslim friends whole families.
I have been invited to Muslim wedding celebrations.
I have had many meals in their homes.
I know an Iman - brother of one of my friends, who works tirelessly to institute a school system in Australia along the lines of the Catholic School System, so the young do not have to go overseas for an education and be influenced by those unknown to their parents and local communities.

If you don't have any friendships and long lasting contact with individual Muslims, their families and their local community - well, then ... your opinions gained from the internet or news "reports" means nothing much at all.

metta and karuna,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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