Global disbelief over 'blackface' skit on Australian TV

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christopher:::
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Re: Global disbelief over 'blackface' skit on Australian TV

Post by christopher::: »

Hi all. I just read the article and looked at the first minute of the clip. A question... why is the host apologizing to Harry Connick?

I saw fat white men with natty hair wigs. They looked more like Australian aboriginals then the Jackson five, imo. The issue is not if a white American is insulted, but whether this is offensive to black Australians, isn't it?

How are things going in your country with issues of racial equality?

In the US we seem to have made some progress. There are many black actors, actresses, singers, polititians, managers, teachers, doctors, lawyers, etc. And especially on TV and in movies great efforts have been made to portray black Americans in ways that break stereotypes.

The situation has not been as good for Native Americans, imo. We still have sports teams called the Indians, or Redskins, with racist mascots. Sadly, for our aboriginal folks they still must deal with some of the highest rates of poverty, unemployment and other social ills. Many black communities still suffer as well.

So now, even with a black president, we have a long way to go with issues of racism. Its good to continuously reflect on these issues, i think.
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
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Re: Global disbelief over 'blackface' skit on Australian TV

Post by Ben »

Hi Christopher, Paul
christopher::: wrote:How are things going in your country with issues of racial equality?
It still exists, unfortunately. It tends to erupt from time to time. And I guess that's because there's been some progress in some areas.

You'll get a range of views regarding racism in Australia as per the first few minutes of tonight's episode of Q&A. As with any episode of Q&A, which is a panel discussion with audience participation, you get a range of views represented.
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
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Re: Global disbelief over 'blackface' skit on Australian TV

Post by christopher::: »

Ben wrote: It still exists, unfortunately. It tends to erupt from time to time. And I guess that's because there's been some progress in some areas.

You'll get a range of views regarding racism in Australia as per the first few minutes of tonight's episode of Q&A. As with any episode of Q&A, which is a panel discussion with audience participation, you get a range of views represented.
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Kind regards

Ben
Hi Ben. Thank you. For some reason the video isnt playing here, in Japan. I noticed on the discussion board most seemed to be defensive of Hey Hey...

But that's the same here. Some of the most racist talk i've seen from Americans have been posts on Youtube video discussion boards.

:computerproblem:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
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Re: Global disbelief over 'blackface' skit on Australian TV

Post by Ben »

hi christopher
I dont think the video will be up for another day.
Kind regards
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Re: Global disbelief over 'blackface' skit on Australian TV

Post by Jechbi »

Hi Retro,
retrofuturist wrote:Yes, but those are predominantly American cultural considerations associated with blackfacing.
That's a good point. I was under the impression, however, that Australia has close cultural associations in this regard with the U.S. in terms of its sophisticated entertainment industry as well as in terms of sensibilities regarding skin color. I might be wrong about that. Maybe this kind of thing is not regarded as offensive in Australia.
retrofuturist wrote:By way of contrast, consider Britain's highly successful and long-running series...

The Black and White Minstrel Show (1958-1978)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_ ... strel_Show" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Which was obviously produced and broadcast in an era after the events of the "historical context" you refer to.
From that link:
The show's premise began to be seen as offensive on account of its portrayal of blacked-up characters behaving in a stereotypical manner. A petition against it was received by the BBC in 1967,[4] and since cancellation it has come to be seen more widely as an embarrassment, despite its popularity at the time.[5][6]
retrofuturist wrote:Something must have happened in the 30 years since the Black And White Minstrel Show... the question is, is it some kind of enlightenment regarding race, or is it rampant political correctness?
In my personal opinion, the notion of "political correctness" is a red herring that some people use to attack the underlying motivations of those who object to things like blackface skits. It's pretty easy to fling the accusation of "PC" against someone who objects to an offensive remark about race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. I figured someone here would use the term eventually.

Bottom line: This type of performance does awaken very hurtful feelings among people in the U.S. and elsewhere on the globe. I feel it should be discouraged, not defended.

With respect.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
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Re: Global disbelief over 'blackface' skit on Australian TV

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christopher::: wrote:I noticed on the discussion board most seemed to be defensive of Hey Hey...
I've avoided reading the discussion board. The ensuing discussions about the incident have left me feeling quite disappointed and somewhat sad. As I've said, let's accept that the act was not intended to be racist. A silly mistake was made, so let's learn from it. But let's avoid rationalizing the mistake unskillfully. It is not the incident that upsets me, but the subsequent defensiveness around what was a genuine, unintended mistake.

Take for example these comments by the host. Many people have made similar comments. I think they illustrate quite well what I've suggested in my previous post:
Host Daryl Somers was similarly bemused. ''If there were any Australians who were offended, I apologise on behalf of the show … but on the whole, I think it's you guys [the media] who are going to run this for a few days and get mileage out of it. For most of Australia, I think it's a storm in a teacup.''
(If I may indulge in papanca for a bit...)
  • So you are surprised that some Australians would be offended? It is a small matter for most of Australia? Does this Australia include the indigenous 'black' population? Maybe they might be offended?

    'The Aboriginals? I don't know, don't see many of them around. The only ones I've seen are the alcoholic, druggie, homeless types. Don't most of them live in the bush or outback? Don't imagine that they watch much TV. Maybe it's not relevant to them?'

    What about the Italians, the Greeks, the Vietnamese, the Indians, the Chinese, the Lebanese, the Turkish, and all the other migrant cultures who have made Australia home? Are they Australians? Do they belong to 'most of Australia'? These people are not 'black' but they may not see the humor in the act and see an issue with 'colour' instead?

    'Nah, if they've settled in Australia they should have assimilated to Australian culture and understand what is Australianness.'

    What is Australian culture? What makes up Australianness? Shrimp on the barbi, Foster beer, the beach, surfing? But wouldn't the people in Southern states say that it is about visiting art galleries, watching 'Wicked: The Untold Story of the Witches of Oz', sipping cafe latte, tasting wine and cheese?

    'Well, Australia does have its own unique flavour when it comes to entertainment. We have our own way of doing things. You can't expect us to follow other people or pander to everyone's taste in the rest of the world.'

    But doesn't the fact that the representation of the 'blackface' and the Jackson Five could be called upon suggest the far ranging influence of US cultural history and entertainment industry? Hasn't Australian entertainment been influenced by the American industry and influenced them in turn? There are famous Aussie films like Muriel's Wedding, Priscilla: Queen of the Desert, and Crocodile Dundee. These films do have an Aussie flavour but aren't they also influenced by the musical, the cabaret, and the Western films of the lone rugged male? When Aussie stars like Hugh Jackman, Cate Blanchett, and Toni Collette win an award overseas is it not proudly proclaimed that Australia has made the world stage? When a city in Australia gets voted 'most livable' is it not proudly proclaimed that Australia is well and truly part of the 'global village'? Where does 'Australianness' end and 'Otherness' begin?
-------------------------------

I don't know about you, but in my personal relationships I find that when people (including myself) get overly defensive over something, it usually suggests that that something has hit a raw nerve.

Well, I suppose this incident does hit a certain raw nerve in me. Being a non-white migrant to Australia, I have encountered many times insular and complacent attitudes and behaviours that, although not necessarily racist, are not immediately evident to the (imagined) dominant white culture. But I suspect another reason is because by the end of next week, I would have graded some 200 essays (totaling some 800,000 words) for a subject I'm teaching on 'Globalisation and the Media'. I am really feeling quite raw from reading essays where students do not engage with critical arguments and instead make broad generalisations about culture and identity. (But hey, I wasn't exactly a model student when I was 19)
:coffee: :computerproblem:

So maybe what I've written in this thread is born of the inspiration and frustration of teaching this subject 'Globalisation and the Media'. People might object that I'm reading too much into these comments and arguments. But even though it is true that the media often sensationalise things, it is also true that the ideas that get circulated in the media (including the comments by Daryl Somers and viewers/readers) reflect certain attitudes and behaviour, and these in turn shape the frames of references for how we think and act.

Perhaps I should end on a Buddhist note. What I've written can be interpreted with Buddhist understanding. Discourses that circulate in the media feed papanca--the flow of concepts that have a real bearing on how we think, speak and act. Moreover, Buddhism also teaches us that there is really no actor or agent behind unskillful actions. Sometimes 'I' commit unintentional mistakes. These mistakes occur not because of 'me', but because of the interplay of various conditions that 'I' am not aware of.

In a similar manner, an unintended mistake has been committed in this incident. It happened because of the interplay of various conditions. It is good that the mistake has been acknowledged. This is a great opportunity to become aware of those conditions. But sadly, I do not see much attempts at recognising these conditions. Instead, what I see in discussions in the media are unskillful attempts at defending an 'Australian Self' and how it has been misunderstood and maligned. But as Buddhism teaches us, as long as we persist in fortifying the 'Self', dukkha is sure to follow......
:anjali:
With metta,
zavk
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Re: Global disbelief over 'blackface' skit on Australian TV

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings zavk,

Thanks for sharing your (as always) well considered thoughts. You've inspired me to share what I hope are well considered thoughts too.

You mention "the frames of references for how we think and act" and I think that is what interests me most about this story. What are peoples frames of references? I think all too commonly people assume that other people share their frames of references and therefore struggle to understand how other people come to difficult opinions and different conclusions about the same scenario.

For me, my frame of reference in this incident has nothing to do with race. For me, in my life, race has no bearing on my relations with other people, beyond recognising that race may be a rough proxy for their cultural background. This may well be the case too for the performers of the skit? They're seemingly all from different races, yet are friends enough to form this little troupe and do this performance, and still be friends 20 years on from when they first performed it. This demonstrates in itself that they get along with people from different walks of life. Perhaps for them, blackfacing to represent the "Jackson Four" and whitefacing to be Michael Jackson is no more different than putting on a wig to dress as a women, putting on a pirate patch to dress as a pirate (Arrr!), put on a beard and santa hat to dress as Santa Claus (the Boxing Day Test is coming up!) or any kind of costume at a fancy dress where someone is dressing up as something they generally aren't.

Juxtapose this then to Harry Connick Jnr's "frame of reference", which is evidently much different, being from the American South. To people who do not make a big deal out of race (consider the South Park kids), the moral outrage from various quarters is actually introducing the issue of race into this debate, and thus into society.

I hope this helps to explain some of what people are reacting to and why they are defending the show and the skit... namely, because they do not see it as offensive, because it was not about race... it was about trying to look like that which you are trying to emulate for the sake of performance. From this frame of reference, it was a prop, or stage make-up... nothing more. To some people defending the show, the reaction from Harry and others is actually perceived as being the racist perspective, from their frame of reference, because they turned it into a race issue.

My encounters of multiculturalism in Victoria have been overwhelmingly positive. When exposed to different cultural influences, the issue of race ends up becoming a non-issue through familiarity and acceptance. My three best friends at work are Indian, Egyptian and Brazillian and their race is a complete non-issue to me on a day-to-day basis. If matters of race are ever going to be transcended in the wider community, it needs to be because in the hearts of people, it really is a non-issue. Not because external forces attempt to socially mandate that you ought to think or react in a certain way. People will rebel against such enforcement and the outcome will not be pretty. Consider here the issue of violence against Indian students which only really took off once it was labelled as an issue.

Through the moral outrage that these events have triggered, race has once again become an issue, because of people's different frames of reference, and the pursuit to transcend issues of race has unfortunately taken a step backwards. That South Park episode is definitely worth watching.

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Re: Global disbelief over 'blackface' skit on Australian TV

Post by zavk »

Hi Paul

It'd be great if more people can identify as thoughtfully as you have how this incident highlights the differing frames of references between cultures. :anjali:

How we interpret any event is influenced by our frames of reference. That is precisely what frames do--they ENFRAME and in doing so help us see things in certain ways. But by virtue of FRAMING, something is always left out.

This incident reveals this very clearly. Some Australians are surprised by the outrage because according to their frames of reference they only saw a skit and not a potentially offensive act. It is entirely fine to point out to others that they have different frames of reference. There's nothing unskillful about that in and of itself. These is what many commentators are doing, saying that it was just an attempt to emulate something, that from an Australian perspective this was just a comedy act, etc, etc....

But this also a good opportunity to consider what has been left outside the frame. And more importantly, this is also a great opportunity to see how these frames of references that we have are arbitrary. They are not fixed and certainly not hermetically sealed. It becomes unskillful when people refuse to see how their frames of references leave things out or how their frames of references are really quite arbitrary to begin with.

So I agree with you that we shouldn't insist that everyone has the same frames of reference. This is being acknowledge in discussions everywhere. However, what I do not see in discussions is the recognition that even though we have different frames of reference, these frames are not fixed. They are permeable, they change, they intersect with one another according to shifting circumstances.

What i see in discussions is people simply insisting on the differences between the frames of references. Yes, we have different frames of references. But what this incident reveals to us is not merely that we have different frames of references--that much is clear enough--but how we often take our frames of references for granted. This attitude of 'taken-for-grantedness' is what I'm disappointed with. More precisely, I'm disappointed with how the ensuing arguments continue to be based on taken-for-granted premises (such as what 'Australianness' is) and are reinforcing this attitude of complacency (case in point, Daryl Somers' comment about 'most of Australia').

What we ought to address then is not simply the differences between our frames of references. I think we need to take a more skillful step forward to address this 'taken-for-grantedness', why we often fail to see the arbitrariness of our frames of references. This was what was lacking when the producers approved the skit--they had taken it for granted that everyone would 'get the joke'. And is what I still find lacking in the discussions in the media--that people are still taking for granted their frames of references as self-evident and hermetically sealed, 'This is the Australian perspective, that's the American perspective'.

I am in, other words, disappointed that there is largely a lack of willingness to acknowledge and go with the flow of conditionality....
With metta,
zavk
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Re: Global disbelief over 'blackface' skit on Australian TV

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Ed,

I agree that a homogenous 'Australian perpsective' and 'American perspective' is a massive oversimplification of reality, particularly when 'Australia' is just a conceptual label being dragged over 20 or so million people etc.. It makes a lot of assumptions that are glossed over which if they are uncritically accepted will cause problems, but I suppose that it at least touches on the 'frames of reference' issue, which is actually important.

I remember that it drove me nuts through my Economics course, how the teachers would present the subject material as if all of their unstated assumptions were always true and thereby "prove" that neo-classical economics was the most superior economic model possible.

:cookoo:

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Re: Global disbelief over 'blackface' skit on Australian TV

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zavk wrote:
How we interpret any event is influenced by our frames of reference. That is precisely what frames do--they ENFRAME and in doing so help us see things in certain ways. But by virtue of FRAMING, something is always left out.

I am in, other words, disappointed that there is largely a lack of willingness to acknowledge and go with the flow of conditionality....
Great posts from everyone, and especially retro and zavk.

Zavk's point about frame of reference is right on target. We all live in our own bubbles, usually without being aware of the bubble or how our bubbles formed. Our minds are like dust bunnies, a collection of impressions, sensory stimulations, electronically delivered messages, stuff absorbed through education and family - its out of this messy soup that our frames of reference arise that we're pretty much unconscious of. I was reflecting this afternoon on an incident that took place several world eras ago in my senior year high school history class. It was 1970 and people my age were questioning everything. The history teacher was a frail woman in her sixties who had been teaching the same history for decades...the history of war, conquest, and economic power, though it would have never of occurred to her to describe it as such. That we described it as such and asked her "who's history is it?" and said things like "History belongs to the dominant power" was incomprehensible to her. For her, history was whatever was in the history book. She couldn't see through our frame of reference, and hers was all too apparent to us. Looking back, I wish zavc could have been there to explain as he did here because then I wouldn't still have this image of that poor elderly woman with an ill-fitting wig who looked pathetically confused, frightened, and exhausted in response to our alien frame of reference.
Last edited by pink_trike on Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Global disbelief over 'blackface' skit on Australian TV

Post by Jechbi »

retrofuturist wrote:I hope this helps to explain some of what people are reacting to and why they are defending the show and the skit... namely, because they do not see it as offensive, because it was not about race... it was about trying to look like that which you are trying to emulate for the sake of performance. From this frame of reference, it was a prop, or stage make-up... nothing more. To some people defending the show, the reaction from Harry and others is actually perceived as being the racist perspective, from their frame of reference, because they turned it into a race issue.
This is why education can be a good thing. The producers, the writers, the actors, everybody seemed to completely miss the cultural significance of the blackface skit before it was presented. What kind of frame of reference is that? One that is uninformed, I would say. You'd think that somewhere in the process before this went on air, someone would have stopped and said, "Wait a minute, could this possibly be misunderstood as racist?" But apparently nobody was informed enough for the question to occur to them. In the framework of the modern entertainment industry, that's pretty hard to believe.

To illustrate the point: I don't know whether this is true in Australia, but in the United States, if you display a noose, it's associated with lynchings and is regarded as a hostile form of communication. There are those who might not realize this and who might put a hangman's noose on their desk at work out of no racist motivation at all. Such people will be taken aside and (one hopes) gently informed of the unintended message they are sending to co-workers with dark skin. At that point, if they continue to display a noose, they know they're sending a hateful message. And if they defend themselves by saying they weren't motivated by race, hopefully people will accept that, and hopefully the individual involved will learn from the mistake and not do it again.

Same with blackface skits on popular television shows. The frame of reference in this case is the global stage.
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Re: Global disbelief over 'blackface' skit on Australian TV

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Jechbi,
Jechbi wrote:To illustrate the point: I don't know whether this is true in Australia, but in the United States, if you display a noose, it's associated with lynchings and is regarded as a hostile form of communication. There are those who might not realize this and who might put a hangman's noose on their desk at work out of no racist motivation at all. Such people will be taken aside and (one hopes) gently informed of the unintended message they are sending to co-workers with dark skin. At that point, if they continue to display a noose, they know they're sending a hateful message. And if they defend themselves by saying they weren't motivated by race, hopefully people will accept that, and hopefully the individual involved will learn from the mistake and not do it again.
I can't think of a comparable offence here. The noose is of no significance, and early Aborigines who were killed were invariably shot. In terms of guns, nobody associates them with Aborigines, as guns have a wider symbolism in the community and would be more likely to be associated with underworld criminal activity. As to your earlier examples of Aborigines in film and entertainment, to the best of my knowledge, these roles have always been played by Aborigines, rather than 'blackened' people.
The frame of reference in this case is the global stage.
Maybe, though this show was never intended to be broadcast on the global stage, hence a more global frame of reference may not have been front of mind for the producers, particularly since the same presentation had been made 20 years ago without controversy. That said, I agree that it's surprising that no one, somewhere along the chain of events that led to the broadcast, commented on the possibility of it being interpreted as racist or offensive. It is an industry where people should at least be mindful of such concerns as part of their professional practice.

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Re: Global disbelief over 'blackface' skit on Australian TV

Post by Ben »

Dear Pink,
pink_trike wrote: I wish zavc could have been there to explain as he did here because then I wouldn't still have this image of that poor elderly woman with an ill-fitting wig who looked pathetically confused, frightened, and exhausted in response to our alien frame of reference.
I hope she all gave you a month of saturday detentions, you naughty, naughty boys!
(only joking!)

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Re: Global disbelief over 'blackface' skit on Australian TV

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

We'll have to remember this "frames of reference" wisdom next time there's a flare up here at Dhamma Wheel!

:twothumbsup:

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Re: Global disbelief over 'blackface' skit on Australian TV

Post by Ben »

Hi Paul, Jechbi, Zavk, Pink, all...
retrofuturist wrote:That said, I agree that it's surprising that no one, somewhere along the chain of events that led to the broadcast, commented on the possibility of it being interpreted as racist or offensive. It is an industry where people should at least be mindful of such concerns as part of their professional practice.
I suggest that what may have occured is that the ramifications of the routine may not have entered the minds of anyone on the production team, or if it did, those concerns may have been drowned by the intoxication of sharing the joke within that team.
Kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

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