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You are not a self: radio interview with T Metzinger - Dhamma Wheel

You are not a self: radio interview with T Metzinger

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Ben
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You are not a self: radio interview with T Metzinger

Postby Ben » Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:01 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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pink_trike
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Re: You are not a self: radio interview with T Metzinger

Postby pink_trike » Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:31 am

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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Ben
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Re: You are not a self: radio interview with T Metzinger

Postby Ben » Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:31 am

Thanks Pink
I'll check those videos out when I get my bandwidth sorted.
If they're anythng like the radio interview, they'll be worth checking out.
The book I ordered isn't so big, at around 260 pages and its aimed at the lay audience rather than fellow academics.
One thing I did get from the radio interview is that he is an avid 'meditator' and the 'B' word was mentioned, so I am keen to look at his bibliography to see how much of his theories is based on Buddhism.
Kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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cooran
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Re: You are not a self: radio interview with T Metzinger

Postby cooran » Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:00 pm

Hello Ben, Pink,

Ben ~ I've ordered that book also - look forward to reading and discussing with you. Doesn't it get you that the postage costs as much as the item down here in neverland?

Pink - thanks for the videos - I've watched the first two so far and will continue later today.

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Ben
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Re: You are not a self: radio interview with T Metzinger

Postby Ben » Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:36 pm

Absolutely Chris
But it beats ordering it through a bookshop and then having to pay for the postage as well as a hefty mark-up!
Hopefully, we'll receive our copies at the same time!
metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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mikenz66
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Re: You are not a self: radio interview with T Metzinger

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:46 am

Thanks Ben, Interesting talk.

Mike

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zavk
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Re: You are not a self: radio interview with T Metzinger

Postby zavk » Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:05 am

With metta,
zavk

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Ben
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Re: You are not a self: radio interview with T Metzinger

Postby Ben » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:40 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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zavk
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Re: You are not a self: radio interview with T Metzinger

Postby zavk » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:48 am

Yes, Sam Harris seems to exhibit more skillfulness in the way he expresses his ideas than Hitchens and Dawkins who, in my opinion, seem to overlook ethical considerations in their zealousness.
With metta,
zavk

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appicchato
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Re: You are not a self: radio interview with T Metzinger

Postby appicchato » Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:27 am


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Ben
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Re: You are not a self: radio interview with T Metzinger

Postby Ben » Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:29 am

Actually, there was an excellent Q&A on ABC1 two weeks ago whch was panelled by Christopher Hitchins, Waheed Ali, a catholic priest and a number of secular figures - no politicians this time. It was the Christians and Muslims who appeared to have the voice of reason against the shrill yet barely concealed vituperations and childish stereotyping and chides of Hitchins. Hitchins did himself no favours that night!
If you have time I recommend it!

God, Sodomy and the Lash

Panellists: Christopher Hitchens, author and radical atheist; Father Frank Brennan, Jesuit intellectual and social activist; Waleed Aly, politics lecturer; Sally Warhaft, author and founding editor of The Monthly; and Anne Henderson, biographer and deputy director of The Sydney Institute. more ›

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/txt/s2695716.htm
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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pink_trike
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Re: You are not a self: radio interview with T Metzinger

Postby pink_trike » Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:23 am

Last edited by pink_trike on Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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zavk
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: You are not a self: radio interview with T Metzinger

Postby zavk » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:03 am

With metta,
zavk

PeterB
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Re: You are not a self: radio interview with T Metzinger

Postby PeterB » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:52 am

If it were not possible to discover or rediscover many of the the basic truths of the Buddhadhamma without recourse to the treasure chest that contains it, the Buddhadhamma would be less convincing. However there will always be limits to what the unaided human intellect can discover or rediscover no matter how lofty or refined those intellects might be. Only a Buddha could discover or rediscover the truth of Dependant Origination for example. All attempts to point to that axiomic doctrine outside of the Buddhadhamma are always much less than convincing, and I have seen Advaitins and Taoists among others try to do just that.
To the degree that non Buddhist thinkers support what the Buddha rediscovered they are of value. In the end though there is no Refuge to be found in them. What the Buddha rediscovered cannot be seperated from the means of self verification which he also rediscovered , nor from the Community of those who are the imperfect caretakers of that which he discovered.

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Ben
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Re: You are not a self: radio interview with T Metzinger

Postby Ben » Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:32 am

Thank you Pink, Ed, and Peter for your kind responses.
Pink, I wasn't aware of Bohm's writings and thanks for those exerpts. They gave me great pause for thought.

Thanks Ed. yes I was aware of Goenkaji's meeting with Krishnamurti. Did you also know that John Coleman wrote about his various meetings with Krishnamurti in The Quiet Mind. Coleman was also a student of U Ba Khin and during his quest on the path, met various teachers and personalities, Krishnamurti being one. Thank you also for sharing Krishnamurti's amazing poem. I spent the day either reading poetry MN82 (Bodhi translation) or thinking about something a dhamma-friend wrote. What is it about this path? On the one hand it invites one to investigate the nature of reality for oneself and as soon as one does so, it inspires such incredible devotion. Sometimes, it just blows me away.

Peter, thanks for your post. Yes, undoubtedly, those writers outside of the Buddhadhamma, their discoveries are inherently unsatisfactory, but I find them interersting none-the-less even if to see how close they come to the Dhamma.
metta
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

PeterB
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: You are not a self: radio interview with T Metzinger

Postby PeterB » Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:41 am

Certainly Ben. I didnt mean to overegg the pudding in my response. Or suggest that there is no value in views that compliment or even challenge, the Dhamma.

with metta.

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Ben
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Re: You are not a self: radio interview with T Metzinger

Postby Ben » Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:47 am

No dear friend, you didn't overegg anything!
Its always good to be reminded where our only refuge lies.
metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: You are not a self: radio interview with T Metzinger

Postby PeterB » Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:44 am

:anjali:

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pink_trike
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Re: You are not a self: radio interview with T Metzinger

Postby pink_trike » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:47 pm

There are many gates to the Dharma that lie outside the fences of Buddhism. Buddhism is particularly thorough and relatively intact, but to say that it is the only way to The Truth is an attachment to form. Buddhism claimed ownership of The Dharma by conflating the Buddha's teachings and the principle that orders the phenomenal world, but claiming and conflating doesn't make it so.

I draw attention to my avatar and to Ben's...
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

Sanghamitta
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Re: You are not a self: radio interview with T Metzinger

Postby Sanghamitta » Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:36 am

The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.


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