Hello all!
I've decided that today is the day to begin my journey into vipassana meditation and, despite the reading I've been doing, I have some questions, mostly about what I'm supposed to be doing. In Mindfulness in Plain English it's written that I should be paying mindful attention to whatever thoughts are cropping up in my head, emotions, etc., but not contributing to them. I understand this much, but the book also says I should be paying attention to my breath.
In the past when attempting to meditate I have focused almost exclusively on the breath, and very little emotion or thought crops up. If something does, I immediately return to my breath without giving the distraction my attention, for fear of losing my breath. Apparently this is wrong.
Could someone explain to me, roughly, how I am supposed to keep in touch with my breath while paying attention to whatever is cropping up in my mind?
Vipassana questions
- DNS
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Re: Vipassana questions
It would only be wrong if you were pushing the thoughts away; if you have aversion to the thoughts and it upsets you. If you are just mindfully noting the thoughts and then bringing the attention back to the breath, there is nothing wrong in that.adamposey wrote: In the past when attempting to meditate I have focused almost exclusively on the breath, and very little emotion or thought crops up. If something does, I immediately return to my breath without giving the distraction my attention, for fear of losing my breath. Apparently this is wrong.
Some have trouble keeping their attention on the breath; if you are comfortable with the attention to the breath and can keep it there for sustained periods, I would say that is very good and you are on the right track.
Re: Vipassana questions
Well, I note that I'm no longer focused on the breath. I'll catch myself slipping into, say, a daydream, or wondering how many minutes I've been meditating, and struggling with thoughts of looking at my timer. Once those thoughts hit I'll realize I'm no longer on my breath and abruptly return my attention to it.
I feel like I'm not practicing mindfulness, but concentration. It should also be noted that I really don't seem to experience the things that I read/heard that I would like emotions, thoughts of past and future, etc., So I feel as though I must be approaching it incorrectly.
I feel like I'm not practicing mindfulness, but concentration. It should also be noted that I really don't seem to experience the things that I read/heard that I would like emotions, thoughts of past and future, etc., So I feel as though I must be approaching it incorrectly.
- Cittasanto
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Re: Vipassana questions
Hi,
my advice would be to simply watchthe breath, don't worry about anything else!
what should or shouldn' come up isn't mportant, what is important is that you don't have expectations. inmy experiance itis the expectations which are the worst thing to bring to the practice, everythig else that should or shouldn't happen wll either happen or not, if it does, it do if not then no point giving it any attenion.
The breath is there so use that to start with, develop that aspect then move on from there.
Hope you well
my advice would be to simply watchthe breath, don't worry about anything else!
what should or shouldn' come up isn't mportant, what is important is that you don't have expectations. inmy experiance itis the expectations which are the worst thing to bring to the practice, everythig else that should or shouldn't happen wll either happen or not, if it does, it do if not then no point giving it any attenion.
The breath is there so use that to start with, develop that aspect then move on from there.
Hope you well
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: Vipassana questions
You're right, but how can I know I'm performing the meditation properly if whatever's happening doesn't reflect the expected results?
Re: Vipassana questions
you can't know. you have to be patient.adamposey wrote:You're right, but how can I know I'm performing the meditation properly if whatever's happening doesn't reflect the expected results?
Re: Vipassana questions
I accept this answer and will test it out. If I'm not making any kind of progress in a month or two then I'll be back with more questions along this line.catmoon wrote:you can't know. you have to be patient.adamposey wrote:You're right, but how can I know I'm performing the meditation properly if whatever's happening doesn't reflect the expected results?
I have another question about meditation posture and so on. I cannot currently sit with my knees touching the floor, I assume that sitting ON something would help me to achieve this as well as a nice stable mediation position, but I have no money for things like a zafu, etc.,
What are some household items I could use to sit on whilst meditating so that I'm feeling a little less interested in maintaining the posture of my spine and my balance?
- Cittasanto
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Re: Vipassana questions
I can't sit with my legs crossed, don't worry abot it, find a posture you can stick to for a while, the first month you will just be geting sed to the practce dot expect anything to progress the way you think it should, simply shut up and do the practice, give it time, a marathon can not be trained for in a month, come back with questions when you need to but dont give it time limits.adamposey wrote:I accept this answer and will test it out. If I'm not making any kind of progress in a month or two then I'll be back with more questions along this line.catmoon wrote:you can't know. you have to be patient.adamposey wrote:You're right, but how can I know I'm performing the meditation properly if whatever's happening doesn't reflect the expected results?
I have another question about meditation posture and so on. I cannot currently sit with my knees touching the floor, I assume that sitting ON something would help me to achieve this as well as a nice stable mediation position, but I have no money for things like a zafu, etc.,
What are some household items I could use to sit on whilst meditating so that I'm feeling a little less interested in maintaining the posture of my spine and my balance?
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: Vipassana questions
That's a fair response. I'll begin that process today, then.
Re: Vipassana questions
Hi Adam
My experience has been that maintaining dual objects is quite advanced and extremely difficult to undertake effectively unless one has already developed sufficient samadhi. In time, one develops awareness of other phenomena concurrent with the rise and fall of respiration. My advice is to focus on the breath and let the rest of the technique take care of itself. By all means read Bhante's book so when you progress, you can commence dhammanupassana and cittanupassana.
metta
Ben
I agree with Manapa. At this stage, just focus on the breath. If you are giving exclusive attention to your breath, you are implicitly observing your mind. One of the first things that happens when a highly pleasant or unpleasant mindstate arises is a change in the breathing. Just observe the breath as per the instructions you have been given.adamposey wrote:You're right, but how can I know I'm performing the meditation properly if whatever's happening doesn't reflect the expected results?
My experience has been that maintaining dual objects is quite advanced and extremely difficult to undertake effectively unless one has already developed sufficient samadhi. In time, one develops awareness of other phenomena concurrent with the rise and fall of respiration. My advice is to focus on the breath and let the rest of the technique take care of itself. By all means read Bhante's book so when you progress, you can commence dhammanupassana and cittanupassana.
metta
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: Vipassana questions
I use cushions off the sofa and bed. I have worked up to half lotus and am going for the whole nine yards. The tripod concept is a good one. If you can sit straight without effort it's ideal, and this is why you will hear so many people speaking in favor of full lotus.adamposey wrote:I accept this answer and will test it out. If I'm not making any kind of progress in a month or two then I'll be back with more questions along this line.catmoon wrote:you can't know. you have to be patient.adamposey wrote:You're right, but how can I know I'm performing the meditation properly if whatever's happening doesn't reflect the expected results?
I have another question about meditation posture and so on. I cannot currently sit with my knees touching the floor, I assume that sitting ON something would help me to achieve this as well as a nice stable mediation position, but I have no money for things like a zafu, etc.,
What are some household items I could use to sit on whilst meditating so that I'm feeling a little less interested in maintaining the posture of my spine and my balance?
I was wondering - you mentioned results - what kind of results are you looking for?
Re: Vipassana questions
Hi Adam, Ben,
However, if you're working on it alone it may be difficult to get the hang of it. Particularly the balance of figuring out when to go back to the primary object.
Metta
Mike
I think it depends on how you've been instructed. Different teachers/schools have different approaches. I was instructed by Mahasi-style teachers and right from the start we have a "primary object" (the motion of the feet when walking and the motion of the abdomen when sitting) but pay attention to other prominent objects that arise (pain, thinking, sadness, etc...). When they fade a little one goes back to the primary object. So this hardly sounds like an advanced practise to me, though I must say that doing it reasonably well took me a lot of practise and until I'd done a retreat of a few days I really don't think I was doing it very well at all. I'm not so familiar with Bhante G's book, but I think he's giving similar instructions. That seems like a good book, and many people find it useful.Ben wrote: My experience has been that maintaining dual objects is quite advanced and extremely difficult to undertake effectively unless one has already developed sufficient samadhi. ...
However, if you're working on it alone it may be difficult to get the hang of it. Particularly the balance of figuring out when to go back to the primary object.
Metta
Mike
Re: Vipassana questions
This raises a question. When going from minding breath to sensation at the nostrils to the next object of focus, are the previous objects then abandoned or do you try to keep 'em all going at once?
Re: Vipassana questions
Hi Mike
I don't know the Mahasi technique very well so here are my impressions of what I think you are referring to and how it differs (or how I perceive it to be different to what I am referring to).
Frm what you are describing it sounds like you are adverting awarenes from breath to non-breath sensation and then back again. Whereas, what I am referring to is maintaining unobstructed awareness on the breath while also maintaining the same degree of awareness on another object, say, non-breath sensation, thought, mental state.
kind regards
Ben
I don't know the Mahasi technique very well so here are my impressions of what I think you are referring to and how it differs (or how I perceive it to be different to what I am referring to).
Frm what you are describing it sounds like you are adverting awarenes from breath to non-breath sensation and then back again. Whereas, what I am referring to is maintaining unobstructed awareness on the breath while also maintaining the same degree of awareness on another object, say, non-breath sensation, thought, mental state.
kind regards
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: Vipassana questions
Hi Catmoon
Kind regards
Ben
I would advise you to go back to the instructions you've been taught to go over this particular issue. What I will say is that, you can't turn off the sensations at the nostrils or under the lip or this or that sensation or thought from manifesting. They're just dhammas rising and falling. Depending on the particular technique you are using, you maybe instructed to maintain focus on one type of sensation or dhamma or sensations that appear in one particular area before moving on. The object of which is to develop strong focused awareness and, and believe it or not, sensitivity of mind.catmoon wrote:This raises a question. When going from minding breath to sensation at the nostrils to the next object of focus, are the previous objects then abandoned or do you try to keep 'em all going at once?
Kind regards
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..