Kassapa Buddha

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Thanavuddho
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Re: Kassapa Buddha

Post by Thanavuddho »

Hi Individual,
Individual wrote: Who regards Buddhist cosmology as literal and what planet do THEY live on?
I don't rule it out immediately. I don't think Kassapa Buddha was an alien like in a Hollywood movie. I think he was lot like humans are nowadays.

:anjali:
“Tasmātihānanda, attadīpā viharatha attasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā, dhammadīpā dhammasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā.”(DN16)
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Kassapa Buddha

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Santeri wrote:
clw_uk wrote:Hey
If we are talking about other planets, the likelihood that the intelligent life that devlops there would be biologically human is doubtful.
They would have had the five khandas, the six senses and so on. What is the definition of a human in buddhist context? Manussa loka.


Who says they would have six senses? They could have five or four or eight. It all depeneds on evolution
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Cittasanto
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Re: Kassapa Buddha

Post by Cittasanto »

Hi Santeri,
well after looking at the other posts here, I think it would be worth mentioning that animal realm is equivilent to what is termed in philosophy as beasts - irrational beingsto put it another way, human beings are considdered rational beings and thus not anamalistic.

we knowtoday that there are many animals (humans beings being animals) who are considered or known to be inteligent, and as one tibetan teachr has said "they can not become enlightened because they cant bow to a buddha statue" is a complete reidiculous assumption, any being who has the ability to practice the actual path, not the outwadly recognisable aspects of it such as rituals can become enlightened unless they are beasts (animals) they can become enlightened in this life.

this question rightfully asks us to consider what is a human (even though this isn't necesarily the OP's intent in my mind), and also asks us to consider out own nature, and tendancies in the form of how concieted we are.
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
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Thanavuddho
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Re: Kassapa Buddha

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clw_uk wrote: Who says they would have six senses? They could have five or four or eight. It all depeneds on evolution
What other senses could there be than the six senses?
“Tasmātihānanda, attadīpā viharatha attasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā, dhammadīpā dhammasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā.”(DN16)
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Thanavuddho
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Re: Kassapa Buddha

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Hello Manapa :smile:
Manapa wrote:Hi Santeri,
well after looking at the other posts here, I think it would be worth mentioning that animal realm is equivilent to what is termed in philosophy as beasts - irrational beingsto put it another way, human beings are considdered rational beings and thus not anamalistic.
It could be argued that human beings are form of animal, but the Buddha chose to give this animal specie it's own category: a human being, manussa. In the end, there is no hard distinctions between the beings in different realms, but there are some attributes that define what human is. What are these attributes exactly?
“Tasmātihānanda, attadīpā viharatha attasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā, dhammadīpā dhammasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā.”(DN16)
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Kassapa Buddha

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Santeri wrote:
clw_uk wrote: Who says they would have six senses? They could have five or four or eight. It all depeneds on evolution
What other senses could there be than the six senses?



Well we already know of animals on earth that have other senses, Electroreception and Echolocation for example


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroreception" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_echolocation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Life evolving on other planets could have other senses
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Re: Kassapa Buddha

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Well I don't know exact rfrences in the canon to what a 'human' is, but hve seen philosophic descriptions which tend o ignore the phisicl aspect as this an cause biological humans to be considered inhuman an example of this is views of many europeans to africans and other aboriginal peoples when they first encountered them (so to speak in some cases) or the so called vegetables due to mental capaity, either from a degeneration from atural causes such as dsease or trauma, or a birth abnormality.
to clasify a human, o more precisely what a human is, is incredibly difficult especially when you considder (as must be) all he variations a bioogical human has both physically and mentally, would you cosider a psychopath to be human, or someone with Bi-polarefective disorder, or other psychological probem? or would you counider someone born with no legs human or missing other physical attributes common to humans, human? and what if they had extra limbs or a severe ondition such as elepant man, or other the man who is turning into a tree (as the program described him)?
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Thanavuddho
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Re: Kassapa Buddha

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clw_uk wrote: Well we already know of animals on earth that have other senses, Electroreception and Echolocation for example

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroreception" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_echolocation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Life evolving on other planets could have other senses
Could these be categorized under the other six senses, like hearing or touching..?
“Tasmātihānanda, attadīpā viharatha attasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā, dhammadīpā dhammasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā.”(DN16)
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Re: Kassapa Buddha

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mikenz66 wrote:Hi Santeri,

See MN81: The Potter Ghatikara, for the Buddha's acount of meeting Kassapa in a previous life (as Jotipala). I find the description of Ghatikara (a non-returner) very inspiring.
http://awake.kiev.ua/dhamma/tipitaka/2S ... ra-e1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In this sutta the world of Kassapa Buddha appears very similar to the historical India. It is very clear that the these beings are similar to humans.
Ajahn Brahm's talk about this Sutta here: http://www.bswa.org/audio/podcast/SuttaStudy.rss.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
MN81 Ghatikara Sutta
Monday, 12 May 2008 4:00 p.m.
Ajahn Brahm explains the Ghatikara Sutta (Ghatikara, the Potter)
is also good...
The idea that the bodhisatta was a once-returner when he was reborn last time, as suggested by this talk, does not make sens to me. Bhikkhu Ñanamoli and Bhikkhu Bodhi have useful notes on this sutta in their translation of MN, if I remember correctly.

:anjali:
“Tasmātihānanda, attadīpā viharatha attasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā, dhammadīpā dhammasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā.”(DN16)
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Thanavuddho
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Re: Kassapa Buddha

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“Tasmātihānanda, attadīpā viharatha attasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā, dhammadīpā dhammasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā.”(DN16)
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Re: Kassapa Buddha

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Santeri wrote: The idea that the bodhisatta was a once-returner when he was reborn last time, as suggested by this talk, does not make sens to me. Bhikkhu Ñanamoli and Bhikkhu Bodhi have useful notes on this sutta in their translation of MN, if I remember correctly.
Yes, I'm not sure why Ajahn Brahm says that, it does not seem so important. The interesting point is that he was ordained under Kassapa. On the night of his awakening he recalled his past lives. Did his awakening depend on recalling Kassapa's teachings? In fact, I recall Ven Huifeng commenting on E-Sangha that this was the official position of some sects, but I don't remember the details.

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Re: Kassapa Buddha

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Santeri wrote: In this sutta the world of Kassapa Buddha appears very similar to the historical India. It is very clear that the these beings are similar to humans.
Yeah, I know what you mean. The hypothesis some of us have engaged of it being another planet or prior solar system would probably be called a "Modern Theravada" interpretation.

If we take the literal position of what is written in the Buddhavamsa then all prior Samma-sam-buddhas were Indian, born in either the brahmin or warrior caste, enlightened in Bodh Gaya, and almost all under a tree. The trees described are mostly different species, including acacia and others, thus, all implying not only the Earth as we know it, but also restricted to the Indian sub-continent.
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Re: Kassapa Buddha

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TheDhamma wrote:
Santeri wrote: In this sutta the world of Kassapa Buddha appears very similar to the historical India. It is very clear that the these beings are similar to humans.
Yeah, I know what you mean. The hypothesis some of us have engaged of it being another planet or prior solar system would probably be called a "Modern Theravada" interpretation.

If we take the literal position of what is written in the Buddhavamsa then all prior Samma-sam-buddhas were Indian, born in either the brahmin or warrior caste, enlightened in Bodh Gaya, and almost all under a tree. The trees described are mostly different species, including acacia and others, thus, all implying not only the Earth as we know it, but also restricted to the Indian sub-continent.


Which would contradict scientific fact about evolution and history, I cant see how you can have traditional Kassapa dates with modern science


For me either you accept that it wad a non-human intelligent species or another planet or you say it was just an exaggeration regarding dates


metta
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Thanavuddho
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Re: Kassapa Buddha

Post by Thanavuddho »

Hello all,

There has to be a logical and real answer to the original question. The answer has to be in accordance with the empirical science. I see no other possibility, there has to have been a previous Buddha before Samana Gotama. And there has to be a future Buddha as well.

I know these questions are somewhat irrelevant for the practice of Dhamma.

:anjali:
“Tasmātihānanda, attadīpā viharatha attasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā, dhammadīpā dhammasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā.”(DN16)
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Re: Kassapa Buddha

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Hi
there are three posibilities.
1 - he lived at a time we have no hisorical evidence of events for the end of the last ice age is a good choice for this time, or even earler, as their ere huma being then and a sophisticated culture is known to of existed in Japan although there is ome evidence for cultures around the world existing around the coast of india and other places
2 - he wasn't a homosapian but anther species of the great ape family (see my post above)
3 - alian (again see my post above and the Dhammas which makes this posibility less likely)
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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