I almost think it should be pinned.....
The fear of death
- Fede
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Re: The fear of death
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.
Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!
Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself.
I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?!
http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!
Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself.
I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?!
http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: The fear of death
The way I see it our fear of dying is proportional to our desire to be.
In my observation of this mind this desire to have a body, to eat, to be with the ones I love, and to do 'things/projects/ideas' is a real source of pain. Something I can see, but not avoid or even lessen. I am confident that as wisdom will increase with practice, this fear will decrease.
In my observation of this mind this desire to have a body, to eat, to be with the ones I love, and to do 'things/projects/ideas' is a real source of pain. Something I can see, but not avoid or even lessen. I am confident that as wisdom will increase with practice, this fear will decrease.
With Metta
Re: The fear of death
floating_abu wrote:Thankyou.pink_trike wrote:We are choosing in every moment to rob ourselves of reality or not, and we are daily choosing the quality of relationship we have with our own aging, sickness, dying, and death as they arise. May we all make wise choices.
Re: The fear of death
Hello Jeff,
Thanks for a beautiful post.
Thanks for a beautiful post.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
Re: The fear of death
I think one of the problems is that we don't really know that we are going to die. We mostly infer from other peoples death or need some life-threatening situation. We are possibly very much convinced that we are going to die one day but our everyday awareness is not telling us this. The "knowledge" of our own death (and birth!) is not based on introspection or self-observation. We seem to exist in a timeless state. Our own impermanence is not obvious to us. An end seems to contradict our everyday awareness of permanence. Most of us don't yet have the so-called "clear and stainless Eye of the Dhamma" of the stream-entrant, which means to see: "Whatever has the nature of arising, all that has the nature of ceasing." We are still believers. And this is certainly one of the reasons why we are so shocked when death approaches us. We can't believe it's true, because impermanence seems to exist only in our environment.zavk wrote:Indeed, when I think about the possible death of those close and dear to me, I come up against this blank. I cannot imagine how it would be like to deal with that. Yet, it is something that I cannot avoid. And I haven't even begun to ponder my own death!
EOD
Re: The fear of death
Thanks Pink, it was a really moving story.
Indeed it is so wrong that we sweep death under the carpet. I remember when I was a child, maybe 4 years old I asked my mum if I was going to die. She responded that it's not something I would have to think about for a very long time.
That seems to typify societal response. "Don't worry about it now" "Don't think about it"
But when does one think about it... When do we consider the truth of life? When it comes knocking at the door and we realise we're not ready?
I doubt we'd waste our time on half of the meaningless activities we fill our day with, if death we're to be made more apparent. For what point is there in amassing fortunes, posessions and land when you can really only borrow in life, you cannot own.
to you all
Jack
Indeed it is so wrong that we sweep death under the carpet. I remember when I was a child, maybe 4 years old I asked my mum if I was going to die. She responded that it's not something I would have to think about for a very long time.
That seems to typify societal response. "Don't worry about it now" "Don't think about it"
But when does one think about it... When do we consider the truth of life? When it comes knocking at the door and we realise we're not ready?
I doubt we'd waste our time on half of the meaningless activities we fill our day with, if death we're to be made more apparent. For what point is there in amassing fortunes, posessions and land when you can really only borrow in life, you cannot own.
to you all
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
Path Press - Ñāṇavīra Thera Dhamma Page - Ajahn Nyanamoli's Dhamma talks
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
Path Press - Ñāṇavīra Thera Dhamma Page - Ajahn Nyanamoli's Dhamma talks
Re: The fear of death
Hey, Good choice of topic
I used to fear death a lot, hated it but i cant say I do anymore. I do sometimes fear the process of dying (atm i dont want it to be horrible such as fire etc) but not death itself. I dont usualy think about "is there isnt there" but on this occasion i will delve into it.
The way I would put it is like this, if there is oblivion at death so what. The very aspect of oblivion means there will be nothing, no pain or sadness or thoughts of "i dont like this" and if that truly is the way life ends then thats the only way it could ever have been and so it is perfectly natural. As Epicurus*, who was an annihilationist, said:
Now if there is "something", as long as i have lived this life well (and if the next life is affected by this one) then I shouldnt have anything to fear about it
So in essence, whatever the "outcome" there is nothing to fear either way, unless you turn away from wisdom and leave a cruel life, in which case if there is something then you might have something to slightly fear
Of course from a Dhammic POV this is all slightly bound up with "I", kinda feel the above quote could be adapted to Anatta "Death means nothing". Death is there when there is clinging to 5 khandas. No "I am" and there cannot be any problem with "death" (reguardless of any outcome)
It did take a while for my to overcome the fear though and to this I owe a lot to Buddha, Epicurus (and myself of course ). Its got to the point now where I feel quite comfortable discussing "my" own death, I even joke about it on occasion
*my favourite philosopher 2nd only to Buddha
I used to fear death a lot, hated it but i cant say I do anymore. I do sometimes fear the process of dying (atm i dont want it to be horrible such as fire etc) but not death itself. I dont usualy think about "is there isnt there" but on this occasion i will delve into it.
The way I would put it is like this, if there is oblivion at death so what. The very aspect of oblivion means there will be nothing, no pain or sadness or thoughts of "i dont like this" and if that truly is the way life ends then thats the only way it could ever have been and so it is perfectly natural. As Epicurus*, who was an annihilationist, said:
He said to fear death itself is a misunderstanding since your fearing something that is nothing, it has nothing to give you to fear (since your not there) and you wont be conscious of it only the act of dying.“Death does not concern us, because as long as we exist, death is not here. And when it does come, we no longer exist.”
Now if there is "something", as long as i have lived this life well (and if the next life is affected by this one) then I shouldnt have anything to fear about it
So in essence, whatever the "outcome" there is nothing to fear either way, unless you turn away from wisdom and leave a cruel life, in which case if there is something then you might have something to slightly fear
Of course from a Dhammic POV this is all slightly bound up with "I", kinda feel the above quote could be adapted to Anatta "Death means nothing". Death is there when there is clinging to 5 khandas. No "I am" and there cannot be any problem with "death" (reguardless of any outcome)
It did take a while for my to overcome the fear though and to this I owe a lot to Buddha, Epicurus (and myself of course ). Its got to the point now where I feel quite comfortable discussing "my" own death, I even joke about it on occasion
*my favourite philosopher 2nd only to Buddha
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
- dragonwarrior
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Re: The fear of death
This topic reminds me of a preach in the Vihara by a Bhikkhu:
"Many of us still fear of death. Actually we have been born and died too much times -that we would never know, but in reality we are still not ready to face death because we are still tied to this world, anxious about the future (life after death), and we still have a lot of worldly desires. But if we go through this life, strive on with heedfulness, always grateful for our life and always do good things, then life would be more meaningful and hopefully there is no regret in the future."
*pardon my english.
"Many of us still fear of death. Actually we have been born and died too much times -that we would never know, but in reality we are still not ready to face death because we are still tied to this world, anxious about the future (life after death), and we still have a lot of worldly desires. But if we go through this life, strive on with heedfulness, always grateful for our life and always do good things, then life would be more meaningful and hopefully there is no regret in the future."
*pardon my english.
- alex jansen
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Re: The fear of death
There are those who actually want death to come quickly. People desperate to avoid the unpleasantness of life like terminally ill patients who no longer want to burden anyone, or those who die for honor and glory like kamikaze pilots, including those that did Sep 11. Regardless of motive, they can and often do hit that exit button. The desire for death may not seem apparent in main street USA but take a drive in the streets of Afghanistan, Sudan and places like that and the picture changes - a lot.
- Cittasanto
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Re: The fear of death
you can look anywhere peoplewnting death are all around, in every culture and status socially and health.alex jansen wrote:There are those who actually want death to come quickly. People desperate to avoid the unpleasantness of life like terminally ill patients who no longer want to burden anyone, or those who die for honor and glory like kamikaze pilots, including those that did Sep 11. Regardless of motive, they can and often do hit that exit button. The desire for death may not seem apparent in main street USA but take a drive in the streets of Afghanistan, Sudan and places like that and the picture changes - a lot.
seuicide i a tragic thing!
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
- pink_trike
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Re: The fear of death
Modern civilization is intoxicated with an unconscious death wish.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss
- Dawa Gyaltsen
---
Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss
- Dawa Gyaltsen
---
Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
Re: The fear of death
I agree:pink_trike wrote:Modern civilization is intoxicated with an unconscious death wish.
You see plenty craving for non-being out there..."The origin of suffering, as a noble truth, is this: It is the craving that produces renewal of being accompanied by enjoyment and lust, and enjoying this and that; in other words, craving for sensual desires, craving for being, craving for non-being.
Mike
Re: The fear of death
pink_trike wrote:Modern civilization is intoxicated with an unconscious death wish.
How so? There are more Theists on the planet than any other kind of philosophical belief so I would say most people like the eternal life wish than anything else
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: The fear of death
I can't speak directly for Pink, but as I said above I see a lot of "craving for non-being", using drugs such as alcohol, entertainment, and various other activities, to "escape" from life.clw_uk wrote: How so?
Metta
Mike
Re: The fear of death
mikenz66 wrote:I can't speak directly for Pink, but as I said above I see a lot of "craving for non-being", using drugs such as alcohol, entertainment, and various other activities, to "escape" from life.clw_uk wrote: How so?
Metta
Mike
As of the early 21st century, Christianity has between 1.5 billion[14][15] and 2.1 billion adherents
Islam - 1.3–1.6 billion
Judaism - 12–18.2 million
Hindusim- 950 million – 1.4 billion[17]
I dont really see how thats true on a global scale, maybe small pockets of western civilisation
metta
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”