Brizzy wrote:
With respect you have given the commentarial view on overcoming the hindrances. The definitions given for mindfulness/investigation and especially effort are totally different from their sutta definitions. e.g Right Effort is not defined in the suttas as "Enduring patience in the face of suffering and difficulty". I think the link you have given summarises some of the discepancies between suttas and commentary.
Thank you for the clarification. So your argument is with the Ancient Commentaries, not the "Modern Methods". Nevertheless, the Jhana factors are certainly praised in the Suttas.
Brizzy wrote:
The Satipatthana in no way supports modern techniques.
It might be interesting for you to elaborate on this point, since it certainly resonates with the instructions that I have had from various teachers, including some from the Ajahn Chah tradition, who, like you, are not particularly fond of the Commentaries.
Let's look at a common description of the "gradual path". This is from MN107
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .horn.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Vigilance
"As soon, brahman, as a monk is moderate in eating, the Tathagata disciplines him further, saying: 'Come you, monk, dwell intent on vigilance; during the day while pacing up and down, while sitting down, cleanse the mind of obstructive mental states; during the middle watch of the night, lie down on the right side in the lion posture, foot resting on foot, mindful, clearly conscious, reflecting on the thought of getting up again; during the last watch of the night, when you have arisen, while pacing up and down, while sitting down, cleanse the mind of obstructive mental states.'
Mindfulness and clear consciousness
"As soon, brahman, as a monk is intent on vigilance, the Tathagata disciplines him further, saying: 'Come you, monk, be possessed of mindfulness and clear consciousness, acting with clear consciousness whether you are approaching or departing, acting with clear consciousness whether you are looking ahead or looking round, acting with clear consciousness whether you are bending in or stretching out [the arms], acting with clear consciousness whether you are carrying the outer cloak, the bowl or robe, acting with clear consciousness whether you are eating, drinking, munching, savoring, acting with clear consciousness whether you are obeying the calls of nature, acting with clear consciousness whether you are walking, standing, sitting, asleep, awake, talking or being silent.'
Overcoming of the five hindrances
"As soon, brahman, as he is possessed of mindfulness and clear consciousness, the Tathagata disciplines him further, saying: 'Come you, monk, choose a remote lodging in a forest, at the root of a tree, on a mountain slope, in a glen, a hill cave, a cemetery, a woodland grove, in the open, or on a heap of straw.' On returning from alms-gathering after the meal, the monk sits down crosslegged, holding the back erect, having made mindfulness rise up in front of him. He, getting rid of covetousness for the world, dwells with a mind devoid of covetousness, he cleanses the mind of covetousness. Getting rid of the taint of ill-will, he dwells benevolent in mind; compassionate and merciful towards all creatures and beings, he cleanses the mind of ill-will. Getting rid of sloth and torpor, he dwells without sloth or torpor; perceiving the light, mindful and clearly conscious he cleanses the mind of sloth and torpor. Getting rid of restlessness and worry, he dwells calmly; the mind inward tranquil, he cleanses the mind of restlessness and worry. Getting rid of doubt, he dwells doubt-crossed; unperplexed as to the states that are skilled [kusala], he cleanses his mind of doubt.
I presume you approve of this. Though, of course, the Tathagata is describing a monk, this is a fair description of "modern" meditation retreat.
Metta
Mike