Vipassana questions

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mikenz66
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Re: Vipassana questions

Post by mikenz66 »

catmoon wrote:This raises a question. When going from minding breath to sensation at the nostrils to the next object of focus, are the previous objects then abandoned or do you try to keep 'em all going at once?
Well, I don't usually use the nostrils (I only use focussing on the nostrils for concentration practise) but for me it's one object at a time. Ultimately, according to Theravada Abhidhamma and Commentary, the mind can only take one object at a time (but cycles rapidly). What seems to become apparent with good mindfulness and concentration (several days into a retreat) is that consciousness jumps (very rapidly) from one sense door to another.

So, with Ben's question:
ben wrote: I don't know the Mahasi technique very well so here are my impressions of what I think you are referring to and how it differs (or how I perceive it to be different to what I am referring to).
Frm what you are describing it sounds like you are adverting awarenes from breath to non-breath sensation and then back again. Whereas, what I am referring to is maintaining unobstructed awareness on the breath while also maintaining the same degree of awareness on another object, say, non-breath sensation, thought, mental state.
As I said above, the instruction is to jump from object to object. I didn't think it was possible to do anything else...

Let me emphasise that I've been speaking from the point of view of Mahasi-style practise. Other teachers, such as Goenka, take different approaches, and mixing the instructions could be confusing.

Mike
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christopher:::
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Re: Vipassana questions

Post by christopher::: »

hi all...

good observations here.

concerning posture- adam, i agree with catmoon that pillows off a couch can work. when i travel i dont bring my zafu so i've improvised with lots of things- several folded towels or a too-firm pillow in hotels, folded blankets, couch cushions, etc...

getting at least 5~8 cm under your butt is crucial to finding that balance where sitting becomes effortless and comfortable. i sat flat with no cushion for about 5 years, it was terrible. the day i bought a zafu seated meditation became MUCH easier, enjoyable even....

You can also place a wider cushion, soft carpet or folded towels in a big square under the zafu/cushioning so the knees can rest comfortably...

concerning attention- i agree with mike, our minds naturally keep moving around. its very hard to control, and since we are supposed to relax and observe one doesn't want to become over controlling....

if you work with a teacher or have specific guidelines to follow the approach is often to focus on one thing at a time. but i think the purpose there is not to only stay with that one frame but to become familiar with it. That's the insight aspect, i think... Over time we become more aware of how our minds work, how reactiveness happens, how objective conditions are perceived, then evaluated as "good/pleasant" or "bad/unpleasant" then a feeling arises of aversion or attraction, sometimes along (or followed by) an emotion & associated thoughts, etc... til finally we take some form of habitual action...

You can read this or be told it by a teacher but our practice is to spend months and then years observing carefully within ourselves, to gain deeper insight into how this works, so that gradually we can detach from habitual patterns, stop reacting to our environments, emotions and inner assessments, resting instead in a calmer and wiser state of mind.

I'm new to vispassana though, so hopefully some of the advanced practitioners here will correct any errors in this description, above....

:anjali:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
adamposey
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Re: Vipassana questions

Post by adamposey »

I sat down today and, with the assistance of a pillow folded to give me support on the hips, meditated for about 25 minutes or so. I had one major interruption and so I started all over again (urgent phone call). This time I attempted to keep an awareness of my breath by basically never completely leaving it, like the breath was the tether that kept my mind from running completely wild. And then when something would crop up (which in this case stuff DID crop up and I'll get to that) I would dedicate my attention to trying to just kind of letting it be-and recognizing it and what it was doing—but never leaving the breath.

I noticed a couple things that actually did occur this time whilst I was meditating. Physical sensations and mental images, strong ones. The physical sensations would be in the form of an itch, or a pulling sensation in my right knee. Once I acknowledge them and allowed them to do their work while I just watched them, they would fade and dissipate. The pulling in my knee would come back, and the itching wouldn't go away entirely but rather I would just no longer have the urge to acknowledge it by scratching. It was like it didn't bother me anymore even though it was still there.

The mental images that popped up were interesting. I've been playing this video game a lot recently and I actually found my mind returning to the game and focusing on it. I also found my mind returning to a book I had read a few hours earlier. And, perhaps most interestingly, I kept getting a strong visual (almost like a portrait) of a female friend of mine. I didn't observe any strong lustful feeling associated with the image, but it did make me feel more tense and energetic. It bothered me that it seemed that "watching it" didn't help it to fade. Perhaps I'm not skillful enough to deal with these sorts of things yet. I wasn't able to get rid of any of them permanently, they kept coming back, but I assume that's part of the process.

I also became aware of time repeatedly. I caught my mind wondering how much time was left before I needed to start preparing for work, and it would encourage me to break from my meditation to look at my timer. Thankfully I didn't, but it was so interesting to watch my mind just kind of..I want to say "run amok". Hopefully as I progress I will learn to deal with these images and sensations.

Also, someone asked what kinds of results I was after, these were the results. When last I attempted to meditate like this there was almost nothing to note. I feel I may have unskillfully slipped into just having a blank mind unoccupied with anything. This time there were sensations and artifacts to deal with, things to watch, etc. I took that as an indication that at least I was doing something correctly.
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catmoon
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Re: Vipassana questions

Post by catmoon »

The situation reminds of learning to ride a bicycle. One fiddles about and struggles for a while, it seems no progress is being made, then suddenly the new rider is up and moving away. (With a few wobbles of course).

Sounds to me like things are coming along nicely. Don't get too preoccupied with watching mental activity. The idea is to spend the minimum possible amount of time on it and return to focus. You can always cogitate about what came up after the meditation.
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Re: Vipassana questions

Post by Sanghamitta »

In my view the role of a teacher is far greater than simply issuing instructions. For many of us, possibly most of us, a teacher is essential. I think many of us would have seen people after the initial rush of enthusiasm hit a plateau and stay there for months or years without the guidance of a teacher to steer us through the various emotional and other obstacles that arise, and which need an objective view that by definition we cant do for ourselves. If there is no possibility of a teachers guidance right now, which would be unusual unless you live in an incredibly remote place, then go slowly until there is. There is always the option of Samatha until hands on Vipassana instruction is a possibility. Samatha is no less a practice than Vipassana but many find that it raises fewer psychological issues in the wider sense. At least that is a view I have heard from those I know who practice both, and has been my own experience.

:namaste:
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
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Re: Vipassana questions

Post by Sanghamitta »

I see that you live in West Virginia Adam. There is a well known centre for Vipassana retreats near Winchester. Its called the Bhavana Society.

Christopher::: I see that there is a Japanese Vipassana Association which offers retreats in two centres. Do you know anything of these ?
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
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christopher:::
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Re: Vipassana questions

Post by christopher::: »

Sanghamitta wrote:
Christopher::: I see that there is a Japanese Vipassana Association which offers retreats in two centres. Do you know anything of these ?
There are a few around the country (japan vipassana), none that i am aware of down here near my city. The past few months Joseph Goldstein's dhamma talks have been extremely helpful. A real teacher or instructional situation is ideal of course, but audio dhamma talks are also very good, way better then just books, i'm finding...

:smile:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
adamposey
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Re: Vipassana questions

Post by adamposey »

It doesn't appear I'll have access to a teacher for several months.
adamposey
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Re: Vipassana questions

Post by adamposey »

christopher::: wrote:
Sanghamitta wrote:
Christopher::: I see that there is a Japanese Vipassana Association which offers retreats in two centres. Do you know anything of these ?
There are a few around the country (japan vipassana), none that i am aware of down here near my city. The past few months Joseph Goldstein's dhamma talks have been extremely helpful. A real teacher or instructional situation is ideal of course, but audio dhamma talks are also very good, way better then just books, i'm finding...

:smile:
Could you provide links to these talks? I'd like to have access to them. :)
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christopher:::
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Re: Vipassana questions

Post by christopher::: »

adamposey wrote:
Could you provide links to these talks? I'd like to have access to them. :)
You can check out some of Goldstein's talks recommended in this discussion, and also search dharma seed. They have talks available from a lot of teachers....

Joseph Goldstein: Achieved is the End of Craving

:anjali:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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