Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Training of Sila, the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).

Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby adamposey » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:49 pm

As you might know I live in a rural town in West Virginia. It so happens that one of the side effects of living in the middle of the woods is dealing with wild life. Most wild life I get along with very well with one major exception—wasps. Not only am I highly allergic to these delightfully aggressive critters, but they make it a habit to crawl in all the open spaces (of which there are many) in our old farm house style home.

Ever since taking the first precept privately I've made it a point not to aggressively go after, and kill, these little buggers. But they often fly to high places and my choice becomes kill them or risk being stung while I sleep.

What should I do?
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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby zavk » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:11 pm

Hi Adam

I think it is very commendable that you are making to effort to not kill them--this is something that most people do not even think about. I would suggest that you continue to encourage the flowering of this wholesome aspiration.

If you constantly work on cultivating such wholesome intentions, even if you do ( maybe out of habit or in a kind of knee jerk reaction) end up killing them once in a while, I believe these occurrences will become less frequent. There might come a time where you will no longer feel threatened by these wasps.

In the meantime, it is best to simply work with awareness and compassion (towards both yourself and those little buggers that you inadvertently kill).

All the best.
With metta,
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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:25 pm

Greetings Adam,

Everyone's survival is dependent on the death of others.... even Class 6 vegetarians who don't eat anything that casts a shadow. :tongue:

Expecting to be able to survive without incurring death unto other sentient beings is unrealistic, and seeing this reality as it is, we should not set unachievable expectations which will cause us unnecessary and additional suffering.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


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One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby adamposey » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:31 pm

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Adam,

Everyone's survival is dependent on the death of others.... even Class 6 vegetarians who don't eat anything that casts a shadow. :tongue:

Expecting to be able to survive without incurring death unto other sentient beings is unrealistic, and seeing this reality as it is, we should not set unachievable expectations which will cause us unnecessary and additional suffering.

Metta,
Retro. :)


Yeah. I'm with you, it's just the principle is not to kill living things right? Well.. these are living so I felt like the precept should probably apply to them. I just want to make sure I don't have to make a late night trip to the toe-tag section at the hospital because I get stung in my sleep. ;) I figure if there's a humane way to deal with the issue, then that's optimal. I just don't know of any ways to easily catch these guys. :P
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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:31 pm

ever think about a mosketo net?

you ned t survive as do they, so maybe allowingyourself space may be a better option.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby adamposey » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:33 pm

I have not considered this... but I have no idea where I would put it to keep them out. They crawl all over the place (I've been stung while taking a shower before).
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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:33 pm

Greetings Adam,

The general rule for pest control is to remove access to anything that could constitute food or shelter.

The challenge is to apply that general rule to your specific situation with a specific solution.

Good luck.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:39 pm

While you are awake you can get help! while asleap?
I believe Lemongrass is good for keeping insects away so that may be another option?
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby adamposey » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:12 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Adam,

The general rule for pest control is to remove access to anything that could constitute food or shelter.

The challenge is to apply that general rule to your specific situation with a specific solution.

Good luck.

Metta,
Retro. :)


Right now our house is shelter. The weather is turning cold and so they're all headed inside because it's warm here.
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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby Ben » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:21 am

Hi Adam
When I returned home yesterday I found a wasp inside sitting next to the Buddharupa we keep in the entrance hallway. I stuck the open end of a glass vase over it and slid paper underneath and took it outside. We've also been informed that Tasmania is 'wasp central' come summer time, so yesterday was a timely reminder to tell the kids to close the doors lest one of the wasps gets inside and stings someone if they inadvertently step on it barefoot or brush it with a hand.
My suggestion to you is to be vigilant with denying access indoors - blocking gaps and keeping windows and doors firmly closed. Blocking gaps under doors, etc. I would also look at seeing whether citronella repels wasps. Its a natural repellent for mosquitos and other insects, and if it has the same effect on wsps, you may wish to invest in some citronelle candles.
I also suggest that during this time you develop the paramita of equanimity in dealing with wasps that come inside.
metta

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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:53 am

Hi Ben,

European wasps don't seem to bothered by citronella... or maybe they just breed 'em tough in Blackwood.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby pink_trike » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:19 am

I've used the glass container/piece of paper technique for years to catch crawling and flying critters. Once when I lived in Colorado which is the center of the housefly universe I came home and found my little 3 room house swarming with flies. I closed the windows and spent the next two hours catching and releasing about 75 flies outside. Got everyone one of them except the ones the cats got first. That incident confirmed for my neighbors that I was a "wacko". It was bad enough that I wasn't a believer in the dominant religion, didn't own a television, and "contemplated my navel"...now I also refused to kill flies! First they approached me with something like pity on their face..."poor fellow doesn't even know about fly strips...you just hang em from the ceiling and the flies get stuck on em". Then they pretty much ignored me after I told them that swatting at flies was a knee jerk unconscious reaction left over from when we were monkeys...the look on their face was priceless. :tongue:
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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby Ben » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:28 am

Thanks Paul
It was after I wrote my last post that I turned to my manager and asked whether citronella was good for for wasps. Instead of repelling the insects, the sweet citrus aroma may actually attract them! Then she went on to detail how I should just use pyrethrum. I didn't have the heart to tell her again that I'm a Buddhist and i don't kill anything intentionally. So for me, its going to be a case of 'catch and release' and try and get the owner of the house to install fly-screens so we can open the windows and doors.

Mr Pink
Oh man, how I feel your pain!
metta

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"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby Potato » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:13 am

I have read that wasps don't like having neighbors. Make or buy a fake wasps' nest and hang it up outside your house. The real wasps will attack the fake nest for a few days, and then go somewhere else when they don't get any results.
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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby adamposey » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:15 am

Ben wrote:Thanks Paul
It was after I wrote my last post that I turned to my manager and asked whether citronella was good for for wasps. Instead of repelling the insects, the sweet citrus aroma may actually attract them! Then she went on to detail how I should just use pyrethrum. I didn't have the heart to tell her again that I'm a Buddhist and i don't kill anything intentionally. So for me, its going to be a case of 'catch and release' and try and get the owner of the house to install fly-screens so we can open the windows and doors.

Mr Pink
Oh man, how I feel your pain!
metta

Ben


Yeah.. there really should be some way to repel these buggers.
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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby Ben » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:27 am

Mate, if I find out, I'll let you know - definitely!
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby Jechbi » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:56 am

When I saw the title to this thread, I thought it might be about problems at work. Big sigh of relief. ;)

Question: How much risk is there of being stung while sleeping?
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby adamposey » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:14 pm

Jechbi wrote:When I saw the title to this thread, I thought it might be about problems at work. Big sigh of relief. ;)

Question: How much risk is there of being stung while sleeping?


I've been stung twice in my sleep... so it happens about as often as not.
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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby Jechbi » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:31 pm

Did you have to go the hospital or otherwise seek medical care?
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby adamposey » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:43 pm

Jechbi wrote:Did you have to go the hospital or otherwise seek medical care?

Not on those attempts. I had anti allergy medication around to deal with it. I was stung once in the shower where I ended up with major throat swelling. :(
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