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Question about the imponderables - Dhamma Wheel

Question about the imponderables

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Individual
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Question about the imponderables

Postby Individual » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:00 am

If you don't ponder the imponderables, how do you know that what you claim to believe is true?

One might say that including the Four Imponderables as part of one's faith is sort of like the rule in monotheistic religions that God is supreme.

Without questioning:
-What did the Buddha and the Arahants really know?
-What can meditation ultimately achieve, really?
-Where did we come from and what's our purpose?
-What is the true nature of the world?

...how can you really know... anything?

We could assume a worst-case scenario (I don't believe this, btw, but it's to demonstrate a point): The Buddha and Arahants were just good philosophers and meditation can't achieve much more than psychiatric meds.

if this is true, without pondering it, how is Buddhism any different from all the other religions that want you to just take what they believe for granted?
The best things in life aren't things.


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Cittasanto
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Re: Question about the imponderables

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:25 am

Have a look at infinity!

there is a program called dangerous Ideas which is about this but I think it may aid in understanding this!


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Question about the imponderables

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:25 am

Greetings,

The following sutta comes to mind...

MN 63: Cula-Malunkyovada Sutta
The Shorter Instructions to Malunkya
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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fivebells
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Re: Question about the imponderables

Postby fivebells » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:21 am


Sanghamitta
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Re: Question about the imponderables

Postby Sanghamitta » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:25 am

The Buddhadhamma is wide enough to incorporate those who view it as a religion and those who do not.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

Individual
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Re: Question about the imponderables

Postby Individual » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:16 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


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Jechbi
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Re: Question about the imponderables

Postby Jechbi » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:25 pm


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zavk
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Re: Question about the imponderables

Postby zavk » Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:27 am

With metta,
zavk

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pink_trike
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Re: Question about the imponderables

Postby pink_trike » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:35 am

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

Sanghamitta
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Re: Question about the imponderables

Postby Sanghamitta » Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:21 am

Could you Pink Trike point to canonical refrences to Saddha being provisional this side of Enlightenment ? I was taught that Saddha and Panna are mutually reinforcing. And that the concept of Saddha includes faith even if it is not a complete translation or an identical concept.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

Sanghamitta
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Re: Question about the imponderables

Postby Sanghamitta » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:21 am

The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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zavk
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Re: Question about the imponderables

Postby zavk » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:38 am

Last edited by zavk on Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
With metta,
zavk

Sanghamitta
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Re: Question about the imponderables

Postby Sanghamitta » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:07 pm

It is precisely because of the associations that many of us carry concerning the word " faith " that it is recommended that students of the Buddhadhamma become aquainted with the concept of Saddha.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

rowyourboat
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Re: Question about the imponderables

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:32 pm

Buddha's dhamma only teaches suffering and the cessation of suffering- if you want that great! -for all else there's wikipedia. :smile:

the four acinteyya/imponderable areas of knoweldge are not related to the goal of cessation of suffering. This does not mean you should not ponder,discuss and ask questions- this is encouraged by the Buddha.
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

DontKnow
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Re: Question about the imponderables

Postby DontKnow » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:39 am


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pink_trike
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Re: Question about the imponderables

Postby pink_trike » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:56 am

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.


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