Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Training of Sila, the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).

Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby Annapurna » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:52 pm

adamposey wrote:As you might know I live in a rural town in West Virginia. It so happens that one of the side effects of living in the middle of the woods is dealing with wild life. Most wild life I get along with very well with one major exception—wasps. Not only am I highly allergic to these delightfully aggressive critters, but they make it a habit to crawl in all the open spaces (of which there are many) in our old farm house style home.

Ever since taking the first precept privately I've made it a point not to aggressively go after, and kill, these little buggers. But they often fly to high places and my choice becomes kill them or risk being stung while I sleep.

What should I do?



They sleep at night.

And you can always sleep under a mosquitonet.

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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby Annapurna » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:57 pm

adamposey wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Adam,

The general rule for pest control is to remove access to anything that could constitute food or shelter.

The challenge is to apply that general rule to your specific situation with a specific solution.

Good luck.

Metta,
Retro. :)


Right now our house is shelter. The weather is turning cold and so they're all headed inside because it's warm here.


They'll die in a short while, with their old queen.

Only the young fertilized Queen wasps survive the winter, hiding.

Don't panic. Move slowly when they are around. They only look for food and shelter, not for you.
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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby Annapurna » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:06 pm

pink_trike wrote:I've used the glass container/piece of paper technique for years to catch crawling and flying critters. Once when I lived in Colorado which is the center of the housefly universe I came home and found my little 3 room house swarming with flies. I closed the windows and spent the next two hours catching and releasing about 75 flies outside. Got everyone one of them except the ones the cats got first. That incident confirmed for my neighbors that I was a "wacko". It was bad enough that I wasn't a believer in the dominant religion, didn't own a television, and "contemplated my navel"...now I also refused to kill flies! First they approached me with something like pity on their face..."poor fellow doesn't even know about fly strips...you just hang em from the ceiling and the flies get stuck on em". Then they pretty much ignored me after I told them that swatting at flies was a knee jerk unconscious reaction left over from when we were monkeys...the look on their face was priceless. :tongue:


:rofl:
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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby Annapurna » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:20 pm

Potato wrote:I have read that wasps don't like having neighbors. Make or buy a fake wasps' nest and hang it up outside your house. The real wasps will attack the fake nest for a few days, and then go somewhere else when they don't get any results.


Excellent trick, if they're still breeding.

Not so in fall when they abando their nest and just eat.

The safest trick for me is to donate some of my plum cake to them, place it outside, and they won't come in trying to find it.

They go nuts over plum cake! :popcorn:

I recently observed a wasp attack while washing a window.

Lots of flies had sought shelter from frost near the window. A wasp had caught a fly and was stinging it several times, both flapping wings like crazy. A little later, the wasp suddenly let go of the fly and flew away. The fly first sat a bit dazed, seemingly unaffected, then curled up, and fell on it's side, slightly trembling.

A sorry sight. It was still alive 30 minutes later.

I found a dead wasp the next day not far from it...

It made me think a lot of about the unfortunate animal plane. . .
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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby adamposey » Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:12 pm

Image

I found these guys on the window next to my bed, or buzzing around my room, AT NIGHT. :(
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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby Annapurna » Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:41 pm

Can you shrink the pic in size? I see only one. A butterfly looks nicer, huh? :smile:

This is how ours look:

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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby Annapurna » Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:12 pm

Adamposey,

I know you are allergic.

I'm also slightly allergic...

So I have a lot of "respect" for them.

Maybe a little story may bring more peace of mind to you, besides making the house tight, and buying a mosquito net, which is closed day and night.



Oe day, I was walking towards my living room, when I heard a deep humming in it.

Before I saw it, I knew it was a hornet. You just know., from that deep humming.

As I entered the room, I saw a hornet at the window, trying to get out. As ssom as it saw me,the hum got higher, and desperate. You can tell from sounds how an animal feels, at least I can. I knew it was really afraid of me, and wanted to get away.

I was very scared too. I stopped and watched.

The hornet increased it's efforts to leave, but to no avail,and flew back and forth quicker. I felt compassion for it's fear.

I slowly came closer and spoke softly to it:

"Don't attack, please,. I will open the window to let you out."

Then I sent my intention to open the window, as a visualization.

(I think animals pick up intentions and images and most try to 'cooperate')

The hornet made room, flew to the right side of the window.

I moved slowly and spoke to it, hummed a little and opened the window.

Walking out backwards slowly, I said bye bye.

"Happy journey."

It found out now.


Try talking to them.

Ask them to leave.

May need a little practice, may sound a bit crazy, but i get rid of many insects this way.

:smile:
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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby adamposey » Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:27 pm

I'll have to try that. I think they become aware of how anxious we are, maybe instead of broadcasting the intention "I'm going to kill you." I should try that method.
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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby Annapurna » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:08 pm

Very good. :smile:

I have more stories.

I had an ant invasion in my kitchen,each night they marched to my sugarbox and to my organic trashbucket.

I had to lear to keep everything closed,but they still came each night.

One night, I carelessly poured water into the sink, even though they were sitting neatly in line, drinking from a small puddle, and it swept them into the sink.

Quite a lot of them actually.

I tried to save them, and cautiously placed them on the patio but many seemed dead, and I was sad I killed them. I made sure they're all dry and not drowning in a drop, and sat and wished a happy rebirth, and hey! All of a sudden some wake up from fainting!
Silly me is happy... :jumping:

I scolded them, (still being silly) :smile: adsaid:; "So now you see what a dangerous place this kitchen is for you! You almost died! Simply stay out,ok? I'll bring sugar out."

I did,and they sat there, eating sugar, sitting neatly beside each other.

I've never seen an ant in my kitchen since.

I will have to add it is a tiny species,that has never bitten me.On the contrary, they are friendly little fellas who willingly climb onto your finger, sit there,wash feelers, gaze at you, while you gaze at them, and sit up and "beg" when you take a closer look. Never seen that before.

It's perhaps the magic of good intentions.

Think of those monks who have tame tigers! :twothumbsup:
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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby pink_trike » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:12 pm

Annabel wrote:
May need a little practice, may sound a bit crazy, but i get rid of many insects this way.

:smile:

It's not crazy. I've done this. Also with threatening dogs. There's a mind connection that can be made where these things can be communicated.
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Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby Annapurna » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:18 pm

Very cool! :smile:
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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby pink_trike » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:27 pm

I once had a friendship with a palmetto bug that lived in my kitchen. He would sit waiting patiently for his "dinner" as I prepared mine. I fed it at the same time that I fed the cats, in his corner of a shelf.
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Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby Ben » Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:32 pm

Ever since first posting this thread, I feel like I've been channeling Adam's situation in my own life.
In the last couple of days, I've had to evict 4-5 wasps from my home. Its only the beginning of Spring down here. Summer should be interesting.
metta

Ben
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725


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Re: Not killing is sometimes very difficult.

Postby Annapurna » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:30 pm

I've never seen a Palmetto before, amazing experience...

A butterfly is hibernating in my staircase. :smile: It's safe from freezing temperatures, but cool. 10 ° C. It'll be interesting to watch what happens in spring.

I've a special relationship with butterflies.

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