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nina van gorkom vs burmese abhidhamma styles? - Dhamma Wheel

nina van gorkom vs burmese abhidhamma styles?

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nina van gorkom vs burmese abhidhamma styles?

Postby jcsuperstar » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:33 pm

i read a coment somewhere that there is a difference in how the burmese vipasanna teachers and how the DSG/nina van gorkom use or teach abhidhamma in relation to practice or something? i dont know, but i've been reading a lot of her books (i bought 6 recently and i'm reading my 3rd now) and i like them a lot, how is her teaching different from the burmese or the same, are there different styles out there? what are your experiences?

just curious....
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the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: nina van gorkom vs burmese abhidhamma styles?

Postby Jechbi » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:03 pm


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Re: nina van gorkom vs burmese abhidhamma styles?

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:10 pm

Yes, What Jechbi said...

That basically any "formal" meditation is misguided. That the Satipatthana Sutta does not contain instruction on meditation...

See this thread: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 210#p16923

As Jechbi says, it's not clear that Khun Sujin and Nina are as "hard line" as some of their students. And Nina's books are certainly useful expositions of Abhidhamma, and the warnings that Robert has in the above thread are worth keeping in mind, even if you don't fully take on his view.

Mike

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Re: nina van gorkom vs burmese abhidhamma styles?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:25 pm


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Re: nina van gorkom vs burmese abhidhamma styles?

Postby cooran » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:57 pm

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Re: nina van gorkom vs burmese abhidhamma styles?

Postby Jechbi » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:17 pm


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Re: nina van gorkom vs burmese abhidhamma styles?

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:20 am


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Re: nina van gorkom vs burmese abhidhamma styles?

Postby jcsuperstar » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:13 am

in one of her books ive read she seems to take a swipe a the mahasi method, something to the effect of directing attention at the abdomen isnt mindfulness of breathing or something like that.

i find her books very informative, and just the right about of a scholarly bent to make up for my otherwise practice based practice ( :shrug: yeah, i couldnt think of a good way to put that)

but sometimes i get the feeling that they just dont think meditation is practical or even important. and other times i feel theres a kinda fatalistic bent to her teachings.

but, good for balenceing out my dhamma study, and still highly recomended reading
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: nina van gorkom vs burmese abhidhamma styles?

Postby cooran » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:08 am

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Re: nina van gorkom vs burmese abhidhamma styles?

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:59 pm


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Re: nina van gorkom vs burmese abhidhamma styles?

Postby Sanghamitta » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:23 pm

A crtical view of taking the rise and fall of the abdomen as the object has a long pedigree for people of a certain age. The late Christmas Humphries activly campainged against it, without imo having the full picture concerning the practise. I think Nina Van Gorkom may be of a generation to have been influenced by this.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

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Re: nina van gorkom vs burmese abhidhamma styles?

Postby jcsuperstar » Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:04 am

thats not the book i read (i have that one along with about 6 others of hers, but i cant seem to find that one..), but that is almost the exact quote... wierd


the rising and falling of the abdomen is the mahasi style i learned at wat mahathat in bangkok, the place n.v.g. first went to learn about buddhism, so i think there may be a conection there? that's why i said it "seems" to be a swipe, i'm not sure really, but i get a sort of "why even bother with meditation" type attitude from her writings, like only some people have what it takes to really practice, the rest of us have eons to go before we're at that stage, i got this same sort of "it takes eons of lives" attitude from some tibetans too, which i always replied, well how do you know it hasent been those eons already and youre wasting your life now?
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: nina van gorkom vs burmese abhidhamma styles?

Postby Dhammanando » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:59 am


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Re: nina van gorkom vs burmese abhidhamma styles?

Postby Sanghamitta » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:46 am

Goodness all those typos in my post... :roll: I must proof read before sending.

Thank you Bhante, that is certainly a very different situation to the objections back in the '70s from the then Buddhist "establishment" towards the " Burmese Method" ...
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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Re: nina van gorkom vs burmese abhidhamma styles?

Postby Jechbi » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:20 pm


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Re: nina van gorkom vs burmese abhidhamma styles?

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:55 pm


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Re: nina van gorkom vs burmese abhidhamma styles?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:23 pm


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Re: nina van gorkom vs burmese abhidhamma styles?

Postby cooran » Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:39 pm

Bhikkhu Dhammadaro has been dead for many years, and, of course cannot expand on or defend his snipped remarks.
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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tiltbillings
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Re: nina van gorkom vs burmese abhidhamma styles?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:46 pm

Being dead makes defending anything rather difficult. Not just the snippets, but the extended remarks - criticisms - at this site:

http://www.dhammastudy.com/behere.html

to whom are they directed?

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Re: nina van gorkom vs burmese abhidhamma styles?

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:12 pm



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