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The Casual Drink Or About That One Precept... - Dhamma Wheel

The Casual Drink Or About That One Precept...

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
adamposey
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The Casual Drink Or About That One Precept...

Postby adamposey » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:28 pm

I've heard two interpretations of the precept of "abstaining from alcohol." Basically: "Don't drink at all." and the other interpretation of "drink, but don't get drunk."

I'm just curious what the texts say, and how we should reconcile this with cultural and geographical norms. For instance, I am a 3rd generation Italian . In my family alcohol is not consumed for the intention of getting drunk, nor for any kind of enjoyment, but simply because it is a fine part of our culture. In Italy itself the wine flows more freely than drinking water.

I understand the purpose of the rule, and I've heard the stories behind it, supposedly, but I still wonder if it is a rule that is perhaps more easy to follow in, say, India than it is in, say, Italy. Correct me if I'm wrong but the buddha only established this training rule after one of his followers was rewarded by villagers with alcohol for defeating a powerful naga, correct?

Related matter: What position, if any, do the buddhist texts take on tobacco? (I don't smoke, but I'm now curious).

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retrofuturist
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Re: The Casual Drink Or About That One Precept...

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:40 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: The Casual Drink Or About That One Precept...

Postby adamposey » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:49 pm


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retrofuturist
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Re: The Casual Drink Or About That One Precept...

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:59 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: The Casual Drink Or About That One Precept...

Postby Individual » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:10 am

The best things in life aren't things.


adamposey
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Re: The Casual Drink Or About That One Precept...

Postby adamposey » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:11 am

Last edited by adamposey on Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Casual Drink Or About That One Precept...

Postby adamposey » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:14 am


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Tex
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Re: The Casual Drink Or About That One Precept...

Postby Tex » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:40 am

Yes, smoking a cigarette is not a violation of the precept.

Briefly though, it's worth noting that the intention of the fifth precept is to avoid substances which can lead to heedlessness (of the other other precepts). While the act of smoking a cigarette is not a violation (and the act of drinking a beer is, because of its direct influence on us), when one becomes addicted to cigarettes he will inevitably find himself in situations where he cannot smoke.

Any hardcore smoker who has been stuck on a long plane flight knows exactly how quickly withdrawals set in, and how much shorter our fuse gets, and how much that can add to the challenge of practicing right speech.

Just a thought from an ex-smoker...

:focus:
"To reach beyond fear and danger we must sharpen and widen our vision. We have to pierce through the deceptions that lull us into a comfortable complacency, to take a straight look down into the depths of our existence, without turning away uneasily or running after distractions." -- Bhikkhu Bodhi

"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." -- Heraclitus

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Re: The Casual Drink Or About That One Precept...

Postby pink_trike » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:41 am

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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Re: The Casual Drink Or About That One Precept...

Postby jcsuperstar » Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:16 am

there are some monks in thailand that are very anti smoking, but rolled herbs to be smoked for medicial reasons is kosher for monks, and tobaco came to thailand as a medicine so well, its just a sort of game of pointing fingers to say this monk is bad this one is good, i've yet to see a thai person speak ill of ajahn chah, and he smoked so :shrug:
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: The Casual Drink Or About That One Precept...

Postby Individual » Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:57 am

The best things in life aren't things.


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retrofuturist
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Re: The Casual Drink Or About That One Precept...

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:40 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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David N. Snyder
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Re: The Casual Drink Or About That One Precept...

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:31 am

Image




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mikenz66
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Re: The Casual Drink Or About That One Precept...

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:58 am

Hi David,

I thought I recalled that at some point Ajahn Chah forbade his monks from smoking. Not because of the health or attachment risks, but because he didn't like the lay people in the poor area where his monasteries were located to be burdened by buying cigarettes for the monks...

Mike

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Jechbi
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Re: The Casual Drink Or About That One Precept...

Postby Jechbi » Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:31 am


Mawkish1983
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Re: The Casual Drink Or About That One Precept...

Postby Mawkish1983 » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:26 am


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Ben
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Re: The Casual Drink Or About That One Precept...

Postby Ben » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:47 am

Hi Mawkish
Hang in there mate. At some point, perhaps not now, you'll need to look at making a stand and get your parents to respect your decisions.
metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

adamposey
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Re: The Casual Drink Or About That One Precept...

Postby adamposey » Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:32 pm

Now, what logic is being used by the more northern monks who practice drinking? I think they call it "mindful drinking?"

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Kare
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Re: The Casual Drink Or About That One Precept...

Postby Kare » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:37 pm

Mettāya,
Kåre

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Jechbi
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Re: The Casual Drink Or About That One Precept...

Postby Jechbi » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:12 am

Where did you get the words "caused by" for your rendering? I don't see that in the Pali, but maybe it's implicit somehow? :thanks:


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