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clw_uk wrote:so wouldnt they be starting again from scratch?
Dhammanando wrote:Also, although it is theoretically possible for a stream-enterer to be reborn as a human being, there don't seem to be any accounts of this happening in Pali literature. All the stream-enterers who fail to attain arahatta in the same life are reported to have been reborn in one or another of the heavenly realms. Being reborn in such places they have a perfect recall of their former life, and of the teachings, practice etc. that they had learned.
I would suggest seven lives represent seven fetters or seven types of becoming, 'jati' or 'abodes' that need to be overcome.
Verily, monks, whosoever practices these four foundations of mindfulness in this manner for seven years, then one of these two fruits may be expected by him: highest knowledge (arahantship) here and now or if some remainder of clinging is yet present, the state of non-returning.
Element wrote:I would suggest seven lives represent seven fetters or seven types of becoming, 'jati' or 'abodes' that need to be overcome.
A stream enterer cuts three fetters and must uproot seven more fetters for arahantship.
Dhammanando wrote:(Puggalapaññatti 16-17; Dutiyasikkhasutta AN. i. 232-3)
Element wrote:If one was a stream enterer, they would not consider "I" will have seven more lives.
A stream-enter would have supramundane right view, as expressed below:
"When a disciple of the noble ones has seen well with right discernment this dependent co-arising & these dependently co-arisen phenomena as they have come to be, it is not possible that he would run after the past, thinking, 'Was I in the past? Was I not in the past? What was I in the past? How was I in the past? Having been what, what was I in the past?' or that he would run after the future, thinking, 'Shall I be in the future? Shall I not be in the future? What shall I be in the future? How shall I be in the future? Having been what, what shall I be in the future?' or that he would be inwardly perplexed about the immediate present, thinking, 'Am I? Am I not? What am I? How am I? Where has this being come from? Where is it bound?' Such a thing is not possible. Why is that? Because the disciple of the noble ones has seen well with right discernment this dependent co-arising & these dependently co-arisen phenomena as they have come to be."
Dhammanando wrote:It does not mean that a sotāpanna does not think at all about past or future lives.
He who sees the present dhammas just as they are
Is unshakeable, immovable & secure
They should accumulate such moments
Let one not trace back the past
Or yearn for the future-yet-to-come.
That which is past is left behind
Unattained is the "yet-to-come."
But that which is present he discerns —
With insight as and when it comes.
The Immovable — the-non-irritable.
In that state should the wise one grow
Today itself should one bestir
Tomorrow death may come — who knows?
Dhammanando wrote:Nor does it have any bearing on the question of what the Buddha meant by such phrases as "seven times at the most" or "not coming to an eighth existence."
And what, monks, is the power of benevolence? There are four ways of benevolence; by gifts, by friendly speech, by helpful acts and by bestowal of equity. This is the best of gifts: the gift of Dhamma. And this is the best of friendly speech: to teach again and again Dhamma to those who wish for it and who listen attentively. And this is the best of helpful acts: to arouse, instil and strengthen faith in the unbeliever; to arouse, instil and strengthen virtue in the immoral; to arouse, instil and strengthen generosity in the niggard; to arouse, instil and strengthen wisdom in the unwise. And this is the best bestowal of equity: if a stream-winner becomes equal to a stream-winner; a once-returner equal to a once-returner; a non-returner equal to a non-returner; and an arahant equal to an arahant. This, monks, is called the power of benevolence.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... tml#book-9
What you have stated clearly contradicts the quote, which states: "Not running after the past" or "running into the future".
"Was I in the past? ... Shall I be in the future? ... or that he would be inwardly perplexed about the immediate present, thinking, 'Am I? ..."
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