Hi Vincent,
I'm glad that you seem to have finally understood what I meant with
acinteyyo wrote:"So here knowledge with regard to the four noble truths is called right view"
When I say "knowledge with regard to the four noble truths" then what I mean with knowledge is the understanding of suffering, its origin, cessation and the path leading to the cessation of suffering. Which
is in short understanding of the four noble truths. What I don't mean is "to simply know the four noble truths", in the way that one knows what the phrasing contains or things like that, like "the first noble truth is the nature of suffering, birth is suffering... the second noble truth... and so on". Certainly not!
vinasp wrote:It is NOT the knowledge of the four noble truths, that is the result of developing right view, not right view itself.
You're right. It is NOT the
knowledge of the four noble truths. It is
knowledge with regard to the four noble truths. Which means
(as I already said) knowledge with regard to suffering, its origin, its cessation and the path leading to the cessation of suffering. It is NOT knowledge of dependent origination. When this simply means to know dependent origination. It is the
understanding of dependent origination as well as the
understanding of the four noble truths.
One have to have a direct insight in these "truths" to really understand it. "Knowledge" is just like seeing the door. "Insight and understanding" is like to already walked through the door.
One who understands dependent origination understands the four noble truths, or like you would probably say, understands suffering, its origin, its cessation and the path leading to the cessation of suffering.
Do you now know what I was trying to say? Don't "listen" to what is written. Listen to what is meant.
best wishes, acinteyyo
vinasp wrote:Hi everyone,
I have just seen something ! Have we all been making the same mistake ?
"And what, monks, is right view ? It is, monks, the knowledge of suffering, the knowledge of the origin of suffering, the knowledge of the cessation of suffering, and the knowledge of the way of practice leading to the cessation of suffering. This is called right view". ( DN. 22. 21 Walshe 1987 )
What I saw is that it does not mention "four noble truths". I checked a similar passage in MN 141. 24 and the wording is the same.
And yet we read everywhere that right view is the knowledge of the four noble truths ! Nyanatiloka says it, bhikkhu Bodhi says it, Collins says it, hundreds of writers on buddhism have said it, and we have said it here.
Right view includes "knowledge of the origin of suffering" and "knowledge of the cessation of suffering", this means the knowledge of dependent origination. It is NOT the knowledge of the four noble truths, that is the result of developing right view, not right view itself.
I wonder if it actually says anywhere in the five nikaya's that : "right view is the knowledge (or understanding) of the four noble truths" - perhaps not.
If anyone knows of such a passage would they be so kind as to provide a reference.
Best wishes, Vincent.