Loathesomeness of Food

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Cittasanto
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by Cittasanto »

pink_trike wrote:Does anyone know if "loathsome" is a precise translation?
It is and isn't, Asubha is a compound of

A = a negative prefixed to nouns, adjectives; and participles. so could be 'not x'
&
Subha = Beauty / beautifull

so i could be "that which is not beautiful"
but it should be mentioned that words such as loathsomness etc which are used as a translation are a match, but the problem is they do seam to lend themselves to be used in a extream way by some characters such as those who tend to hate things which is why there is a sort of argument about how to translate the word so it is accurate and benefiscial in all its forms of practice when used appropriately, suh as the practice of using the four requisites which is a standard one and part of the asubha practice
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Ben
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by Ben »

catmoon wrote:
Ben wrote: Why is it a scream?

Ben
Oh sorry. I thought you had just found an extremely polite way to say that on some retreats the food was really truly awful. Maybe I read a tone of voice into what you were saying that you never intended.
No problems Catmoon.
Online text-based communications are a minefield because we can't read body language or vocal intonation. It sometimes makes for interesting discussions!
Manapa wrote:so i could be "that which is not beautiful"
In Bhikkhu Nanamoli's translation of the Visuddhimagga, the rendering is "Perception of repulsiveness in nutriment"

Here is Nyantiloka Thera's rendering of 'asubha'
Asubha

Asubha (adj.) [a + subha] impure, unpleasant, bad, ugly, nasty; nt. ˚ŋ nastiness, impurity. Cp. on term and the Asubha -- meditation, as well as on the 10 asubhas or offensive objects Dhs. trsl. 70 and Cpd. 121 n. 6. -- S iv.111 (asubhato manasikaroti); v.320; Sn 341; Sdhp 368. -- subhâsubha pleasant unpleasant, good & bad Sn 633; J iii. 243; Miln 136.
-- ânupassin realising or intuiting the corruptness (of the body) It 80, 81; DhA i.76. -- kathā talk about impurity Vin iii.68. -- kammaṭṭhāna reflection on impurity DhA iii.425. -- nimitta sign of the unclean i. e. idea of impurity Vism 77. -- bhāvanā contemplation of the impurity (of the body) Vin iii.68. -- saññā idea of impurity D iii.253, 283, 289, 291. -- saññin having an idea of or realising the impurity (of the body) It 93.
-- http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philol ... :2462.pali" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
BTW, the section on 'Perception of repulsiveness in nutriment' in the Visuddhimagga is at the beginning of Chapter 11.
Kind regards

Ben
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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by Khalil Bodhi »

Thank you everyone for the excellent replies. I don't intend to deeply cultivate the perception of loathsomeness of food on a regular basis (I can certainly appreciate the dangers that would arise from doing so without the guidance of a qualified teacher) but am interested in using it as a tool to prevent my mind from being consumed by sensual pleasure while eating. I do find that simply reflecting on the process of mastication and digestion helps to reframe the experience of eating and gives me enough space to disentangle myself from the sticky strands of sensuality when I'm eating a particularly tasty food. Anyway, thank you all again. Be well. :anjali:

Mike
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catmoon
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by catmoon »

Khalil Bodhi wrote:Anyway, thank you all again. Be well. :anjali:

Mike
You are most most welcome, and may you also be well.

Did I mention I still just don't get it? :toast:
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by Annapurna »

Khalil Bodhi wrote:Thank you everyone for the excellent replies. I don't intend to deeply cultivate the perception of loathsomeness of food on a regular basis (I can certainly appreciate the dangers that would arise from doing so without the guidance of a qualified teacher) but am interested in using it as a tool to prevent my mind from being consumed by sensual pleasure while eating. I do find that simply reflecting on the process of mastication and digestion helps to reframe the experience of eating and gives me enough space to disentangle myself from the sticky strands of sensuality when I'm eating a particularly tasty food. Anyway, thank you all again. Be well. :anjali:

Mike
Dear Mike,

ask yourself what you're really hungry for. Food for pleasure is often a substitute, a compensation for something else that you miss, in contrast to eating because you're hungry.

A good method is this:

hang this image at the fridge (etc)

Image

Drop a coin in a box each time you resist to eat, and donate it after a while.

I can promise you this will make you feel truly good.

Just so long you don't starve yourself to death or go bankrupt, of course. ;)

Best wishes for your efforts.

A

edited for typos
Last edited by Annapurna on Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by Khalil Bodhi »

Annabel,

Thanks for the advice. Eating is definitely an area for I find myself consuming simply out of pleasure and distraction. It's not that I eat often or even much it's simply that I tend to lose mindfulness when eating. What a heart-wrenching picture! That poor baby. It's a crime that we live so well when babies all over the world are allowed to starve to death before their mothers' eyes. Anyway, be well and thank you again.

Mike
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by Lazy_eye »

Khalil Bodhi wrote: I do find that simply reflecting on the process of mastication and digestion helps to reframe the experience of eating and gives me enough space to disentangle myself from the sticky strands of sensuality when I'm eating a particularly tasty food. Anyway, thank you all again. Be well. :anjali:

Mike
Mike,

I've found it interesting to gauge my reactions to food that isn't particularly tasty. For example, I usually eat soup for lunch, but the soup I was getting had a heavy sodium content. So I switched to a low-sodium version. Along with the heavy sodium went the delicious flavor. It was really startling to see how my enjoyment of the soup depended on it being overloaded with salt.

Similar things could be said with regard to sugar -- or, more to the point, the high fructose corn syrup that's ladled into practically any food product sold in the US.
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by Annapurna »

Khalil Bodhi wrote:Annabel,

Thanks for the advice. Eating is definitely an area for I find myself consuming simply out of pleasure and distraction. It's not that I eat often or even much it's simply that I tend to lose mindfulness when eating. What a heart-wrenching picture! That poor baby. It's a crime that we live so well when babies all over the world are allowed to starve to death before their mothers' eyes. Anyway, be well and thank you again.

Mike
You're welcome, Mike, if it helps you then I am happy.

(I have a little problem there myself) ;)

Best wishes I guess for both of us!
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by Dhammabodhi »

:offtopic: About the picture:
The haunting photo of a vulture stalking an emaciated Sudanese girl who'd collapsed on her way to a feeding station won photographer Kevin Carter a Pulitzer Prize in 1994. Carter also become notorious for sticking to the journalistic principle of being an observor and not getting involved -- he left after taking his photo and neither he, nor the New York Times, which first published the photo on 26 March 1993, knew what happened to her. (Looking at the photo, it's hard to imagine a pleasant ending.) A few months later after collecting his Pulitzer, Carter committed suicide, the violence he'd encountered in his life as a journalist, especially in South Africa, becoming too much to live with.
From about.com.

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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by zavk »

Oh man.... I love food--or more precisely, seeking out well-made food. :pig:

But others have suggested, I have on retreat found the act of eating quite insightful.
With metta,
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by pink_trike »

Having studied Classical Asian food cures for years, I regard food as substances that have an effect on the body/mind. All foods, without exception, have an energetic quality that in premodern cultures was used medicinally - both preventatively and as cure...this is how food was at one point regarded in most cultures, not as entertainment or just as fuel. It was known that some foods are dampening, some are drying, some are cooling, some induce heat, some are diuretic, some are stimulants or sedatives, etc... For example: green beans are a diuretic, black beans are an internal lubricant, honey lubricates the intestines but has an overall drying effect on the body, buckwheat can overstimulate the mind, sweeteners can dull the mind. Some foods have specific effects on specific organs of the body. Everything we ingest has some sort of energetic qualitative effect on the body and internal energetic processes. The body also does better with certain foods/herbs/tastes in certain seasons - this is where the term "seasonings" comes from. For example: premodern people knew not to eat drying foods during dry seasons or cooling foods during cold seasons, which we do routinely in our culture to our detriment. Food is medicine, but this has been forgotten as we follow our sensory cravings...today we tend to gorge our way through nature's medicine cabinet unaware of the potential effects of what we eat on the body/mind as we're driven and suffer the consequences of our mindlessness (with the help of corporate advertising that has transformed food into near sexual fetish). In premodern cultures "taste" wasn't regarded as sensory pleasure, it was regarded as a diagnostic tool...if a person craves certain tastes this can indicate an imbalance in the body that is re-balanced with either the taste being craved, or a different taste that has a different energetic quality, depending on other indicators such as the quality of the tongue coating, now the skin feels, quality of the hair, inherited energetic qualities and patterns, etc... In addition to being mindful of how we obtain, chew, taste, swallow, digest, and eliminate food, its also beneficial to note the effects of what we ingest on the internal processes of body/mind. This awareness can surface over time as we develop our sitting practice and can be useful in balancing the body/mind in relationship to internal and external conditions so that we remain healthy and functioning optimally as long as we can as we attend to the mission of life and awakening.
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by zavk »

pink_trike wrote:HIt was known that some foods are dampening, some are drying, some are cooling, some induce heat, some are diuretic, some are stimulants or sedatives, etc...
You know... I grew up in a cultural environment were there was very general understanding of these properties of food. In fact, based on a combination of a very, very watered down understanding of these ideas and various old wive's tales about food/nutrition, my mom would often restrict me from eating all sorts of junky but oh so delicious food. Those foods were said to be too 'heaty' for my own good..... :cry:

Anyway, for us contemporary folks living in post-industralised societies, it might be more productive to think in terms of the ethics of the food we consume rather that its 'loathsomeness'. For example, there are pressing issues about various food industries that we could be mindful of when choosing what we eat.

Just a thought....
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by pink_trike »

zavk wrote:
pink_trike wrote:HIt was known that some foods are dampening, some are drying, some are cooling, some induce heat, some are diuretic, some are stimulants or sedatives, etc...
You know... I grew up in a cultural environment were there was very general understanding of these properties of food. In fact, based on a combination of a very, very watered down understanding of these ideas and various old wive's tales about food/nutrition, my mom would often restrict me from eating all sorts of junky but oh so delicious food. Those foods were said to be too 'heaty' for my own good..... :cry:

Anyway, for us contemporary folks living in post-industralised societies, it might be more productive to think in terms of the ethics of the food we consume rather that its 'loathsomeness'. For example, there are pressing issues about various food industries that we could be mindful of when choosing what we eat.

Just a thought....
Agreed. I find that eating locally grown organic food and avoiding animal products as much as possible addresses a wide range of ethical problems plaguing modern society.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

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Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by Annapurna »

Dhammabodhi wrote: :offtopic: About the picture:
The haunting photo of a vulture stalking an emaciated Sudanese girl who'd collapsed on her way to a feeding station won photographer Kevin Carter a Pulitzer Prize in 1994. Carter also become notorious for sticking to the journalistic principle of being an observor and not getting involved -- he left after taking his photo and neither he, nor the New York Times, which first published the photo on 26 March 1993, knew what happened to her. (Looking at the photo, it's hard to imagine a pleasant ending.) A few months later after collecting his Pulitzer, Carter committed suicide, the violence he'd encountered in his life as a journalist, especially in South Africa, becoming too much to live with.
From about.com.

:focus:
Dhammabodhi, why do you think this foto is off topic?
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by Annapurna »

pink_trike wrote:Everything we ingest has some sort of energetic qualitative effect on the body and internal energetic processes. The body also does better with certain foods/herbs/tastes in certain seasons - this is where the term "seasonings" comes from. For example: premodern people knew not to eat drying foods during dry seasons or cooling foods during cold seasons, which we do routinely in our culture to our detriment. Food is medicine, but this has been forgotten as we follow our sensory cravings...today we tend to gorge our way through nature's medicine cabinet unaware of the potential effects of what we eat on the body/mind as we're driven and suffer the consequences of our mindlessness



:goodpost:

So many people are out of balance today, and ill, largely based upon our alienation from a natural simple life, physical work and living in tune with nature.
Last edited by Annapurna on Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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