Loathesomeness of Food

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Clueless Git
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by Clueless Git »

Annabel wrote:
hang this image at the fridge (etc)

Image

edited for typos
Poor little mite ...

According to WHO figures one of those dies every six seconds.

Another idea would be to post this piccie on our fridges with the caption; "Whilst just one child in the world goes hungry this fridge is on a total boycott of any products that come from well fed chickens or pigs or cows ..."

The obvious flaw in that idea is that if too many people stop buying animal products then the whole process of breeding and feeding animals soley for the purpose of salughter would become unprofitable.

That cannot be allowed. If it did then the whole current batch of animals that have already been bred and are being currently fed soley for the purpose of slaughter would then have to die.
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by Annapurna »

:jumping:
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by Sanghamitta »

zavk wrote:
pink_trike wrote:HIt was known that some foods are dampening, some are drying, some are cooling, some induce heat, some are diuretic, some are stimulants or sedatives, etc...
You know... I grew up in a cultural environment were there was very general understanding of these properties of food. In fact, based on a combination of a very, very watered down understanding of these ideas and various old wive's tales about food/nutrition, my mom would often restrict me from eating all sorts of junky but oh so delicious food. Those foods were said to be too 'heaty' for my own good..... :cry:

Anyway, for us contemporary folks living in post-industralised societies, it might be more productive to think in terms of the ethics of the food we consume rather that its 'loathsomeness'. For example, there are pressing issues about various food industries that we could be mindful of when choosing what we eat.

Just a thought....
:focus:

I think that contemplating the ethical dimensions of our diet may be a worthy topic, but it is not the one which forms the point of this thread, which is about detaching oneself from building a false sense of self by means of sensory and sensual experience. This false sense of self taken as an experience in itself is just as easily served by organic carrots as it is by a Big Mac and chips. I am not arguing about which is the more healthy, or ethical, or environmentally sound, that is a matter which is fairly obvious, but I dont think that was the thrust of the thread.
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by Annapurna »

I think that contemplating the ethical dimensions of our diet may be a worthy topic, but it is not the one which forms the point of this thread
Sometimes, the best parts of topics are in the side alleys.

Here, I think, that contemplating the collapsed child or overfed pigs helps to detach ourselves from rotating around our own bellybuttons pretty good.
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by Sanghamitta »

Perhaps it should form the basis for another thread. The OP refers specifically to the traditional practice of contemplating the loathsomeness of the body and its functions. This practice is no less valid for a vegan than for a meat eater. a vegan diet might be more healthy and ethically sound, but vegan food still ends up as a waste product, or as blood, bile, mucus, etc just as much as does a meal of meat. That is the basis of that practice. It is not Hatha Yoga, or another attempt to prolong the life of the body.
Not long ago I watched Ajahn Sumedho tucking into a burger because that is what had been dropped into his bowl. Now, a salad of fresh vegetables might have been better for his long term health, and it might have been better for the environment, the point is however, that Luang Por Sumedho ate his meal with his usual carefully cultivated Upekkha in order to fuel his body, not for the sensual experience, nor for personal concerns. He would have eaten organic fruit with exactly the same mind set, Upekkha. In part that Upekkha has no doubt been cultivated by just the kind of practice being explored by the OP.
Last edited by Sanghamitta on Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by Sanghamitta »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

A good middle ground, perhaps... an extract from

AN 4.159: Bhikkhuni Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"'This body, sister, comes into being through food. And yet it is by relying on food that food is to be abandoned.' Thus was it said. And in reference to what was it said? There is the case, sister, where a monk, considering it thoughtfully, takes food — not playfully, nor for intoxication, nor for putting on bulk, nor for beautification — but simply for the survival & continuance of this body, for ending its afflictions, for the support of the holy life, [thinking,] 'Thus will I destroy old feelings [of hunger] and not create new feelings [from overeating]. I will maintain myself, be blameless, & live in comfort.' Then, at a later time, he abandons food, having relied on food. 'This body, sister, comes into being through food. And yet it is by relying on food that food is to be abandoned.' Thus was it said, and in reference to this was it said."
There is also the following extract from...

SN 12.63: Puttamansa Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
At Savatthi... "There are these four nutriments for the maintenance of beings who have come into being or for the support of those in search of a place to be born. Which four? Physical food, gross or refined; contact as the second, intellectual intention the third, and consciousness the fourth. These are the four nutriments for the maintenance of beings who have come into being or for the support of those in search of a place to be born.

"And how is physical food to be regarded? Suppose a couple, husband & wife, taking meager provisions, were to travel through a desert. With them would be their only baby son, dear & appealing. Then the meager provisions of the couple going through the desert would be used up & depleted while there was still a stretch of the desert yet to be crossed. The thought would occur to them, 'Our meager provisions are used up & depleted while there is still a stretch of this desert yet to be crossed. What if we were to kill this only baby son of ours, dear & appealing, and make dried meat & jerky. That way — chewing on the flesh of our son — at least the two of us would make it through this desert. Otherwise, all three of us would perish.' So they would kill their only baby son, loved & endearing, and make dried meat & jerky. Chewing on the flesh of their son, they would make it through the desert. While eating the flesh of their only son, they would beat their breasts, [crying,] 'Where have you gone, our only baby son? Where have you gone, our only baby son?' Now what do you think, monks: Would that couple eat that food playfully or for intoxication, or for putting on bulk, or for beautification?"

"No, lord."

"Wouldn't they eat that food simply for the sake of making it through that desert?"

"Yes, lord."

"In the same way, I tell you, is the nutriment of physical food to be regarded. When physical food is comprehended, passion for the five strings of sensuality is comprehended. When passion for the five strings of sensuality is comprehended, there is no fetter bound by which a disciple of the noble ones would come back again to this world.
I expect loathsomeness of food would most benefit one who currently had strong cravings towards food, in the hope of ultimately generating dispassion towards food and other cords of sensuality.

Metta,
Retro. :)
Sadhu. I wonder if whether the Buddha were teaching on this today he might include food narcissism...
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by Dhammabodhi »

Annabel wrote:
Dhammabodhi, why do you think this foto is off topic?
Hi Annabel,

You got me wrong! I hardly think that pic is off-topic, in fact I find the idea to put it up on the fridge is a brilliant one in this context! I only wrote 'off-topic' because the passage I quoted about the history of the picture and the photographer most probably is off-topic. Sorry for not being clear...


:anjali:
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by Annapurna »

Oh....! :!:

Thank you. :anjali:
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pink_trike
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by pink_trike »

Sanghamitta wrote:Perhaps it should form the basis for another thread. The OP refers specifically to the traditional practice of contemplating the loathsomeness of the body and its functions.
Sanghamitta wrote:...from building a false sense of self by means of sensory and sensual experience.
Manapa wrote:Asubha
Greeting Sanghamitta,

I wonder if we're talking about the same practice. Its been a long time since I was taught and regularly engaged this practice, but I seem to remember that it doesn't directly address sensory and sensual experiences, as it isn't practiced while eating - and isn't a direct contemplation on the loathsomeness of the body - it is an emphasized and direct contemplation on the loathsomeness of food. If I'm remembering correctly, the contemplation on the loathsomeness of food includes but is limited to the observation of:

1. problems associated with obtaining food related to issues of food safety and harm to other living beings
2. food's continuous rotting (impermanent) nature and it being home to parasites (the causes of ill-health)
3. the ugly and disgusting forms food takes within the body
4. that food can feed harmful parasites and dis-ease that exist within the host organism (the body)
5. that food has the potential to produce excretions that are hazardous to other living beings.

I see issues of both health ( #1, 2, 4 , and 5) and food ethics (#1, 5) in this practice.

I wonder if we may be speaking of different practices? Both your comments and Manapa's comments about translation seem to be pointing at something different from the practice I'm familiar with (described above). This practice, if I'm remembering correctly, is included in a very specific list of practices related to the cultivation of a very specific awareness related to materiality. I'm not remembering the pali name of this practice or the name of the list of practices that this particular practice is a part of and the google god isn't cooperating.

Anybody else know what specific practice I'm pointing at?
Last edited by pink_trike on Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by Ben »

pink_trike wrote:Anybody else know what specific practice I'm pointing at?
Hi Pink

If I get time tonight I'll transcribe from the Visuddhimagga which has a detailed nidessa (exposition) on the contemplation on the repulsiveness of nutriment; incidentally the chapter on the contemplations on repulsiveness also includes non-material forms of nutriment as well. I think I included a chapter reference in one of my earlier posts if anyone has a copy of Vism.
kind regards

Ben
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by Sanghamitta »

We may be talking about two different practises Pink Trike. If my misunderstanding of the OP has thereby dragged the thread off topic I apologise to Khalil Bodhi. It was his mention of a " daily practise" to modify his eating patterns that led to my interpretation of his intent.
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by catmoon »

I got an impromptu education on the loathsomeness of food today. Turns out a friend of mine got a lunch invitation from some wealthy businessmen. Things like chicken feet and jellyfish started arriving on his plate. He was also injured during lunch by some kind of dumpling that you break open with your hands, but is filled with some kind of scalding hot filling. He proudly related that during lunch he neither gagged no cried out in pain.

I suppose if every meal was like that, I would have less trouble understanding the whole loathsomeness thing. But I'd still have a hard time seeing that the things he was putting in his mouth were "food".
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by cooran »

Hello all,

Those with a copy of the Visuddhi Magga will find an explanation in Chapter XI Description of Concentration - Conclusion (Samadhi-niddesa)
Perception of the Repulsiveness of Nutriment
page 372 to 380 (paras 1~26).

metta
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by Ben »

5. One who wants to develop that perception of repulsiveness in nutriment should learn the meditation subject and see that he has no uncertainty about even a single word of what he has learned. Then he should go into solitary retreat and review repulsiveness in ten aspects in the physical nutriment classified as what is eaten, drunk, chewed, and tasted, that is to say, as to going, seeking, using, secretion, receptacle, what is uncooked (undigested), what is cooked (digested), fruit, outflow, and smearing.
6. Herein, as to going: even when a man has gone forth in so mighty a dispensation, still after he has perhaps spent all night reciting the Enlightened One’s words or doing the ascetic’s work, after ha has risen early to do the duties connected with the shrine terrace and the Enlightenment Tree terrace, to set out the water for drinking and washing, to sweep the grounds and to see to the needs of the body, after ha has sat down on his seat and given attention to his meditation subject twenty or thirty times and got up again, then he must take his bowl and outer robe, he must leave behind the ascetic’s woods that are not crowded with people, offer the bliss of seclusion, possess shade and water, and are clean, cool, delightful places, he must disregard the noble ones’ delight in seclusion and he must set out for the village in order to get nutriment, as a jackal for the charnel ground.
-- para 5-6, Ch 11: Concentration – Conclusion: nutriment and the elements, Vism.
More to follow...
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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Re: Loathesomeness of Food

Post by Sanghamitta »

Thanks for that Ben.

:anjali:
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
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