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Hearing. was Re: Mahamudra in Theravada? - Dhamma Wheel

Hearing. was Re: Mahamudra in Theravada?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Freawaru
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Hearing. was Re: Mahamudra in Theravada?

Postby Freawaru » Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:26 pm


Freawaru
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Re: Mahamudra in Theravada?

Postby Freawaru » Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:45 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: Mahamudra in Theravada?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:15 pm


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Re: Mahamudra in Theravada?

Postby Sanghamitta » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:12 am

The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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Re: Mahamudra in Theravada?

Postby Freawaru » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:36 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Mahamudra in Theravada?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:54 am


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Re: Mahamudra in Theravada?

Postby pink_trike » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:48 pm

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

Freawaru
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Re: Mahamudra in Theravada?

Postby Freawaru » Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:44 am


Freawaru
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Hearing. was Re: Mahamudra in Theravada?

Postby Freawaru » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:37 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Hearing. was Re: Mahamudra in Theravada?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:10 pm


Freawaru
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Re: Mahamudra in Theravada?

Postby Freawaru » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:31 am

Hello tiltbillings,

a few years ago I spend some time discussing with some Mahayanans, who held the indestructible opinion that Theravada was - at best - a very lowly form of Dhamma: the inferior vehicle they called it. I could say what I wanted, give prove and quotes and logical argumentation, nothing I did could change this opinion of theirs. So I know my limits and I really have no intention to play the same game again, this time having to show that Mahamudra is the Buddha's Dhamma, too.

As to DhammaStudyGroup, the people there are very nice and kind and knowledgeable regarding their choosen approach and I recommend it to anyone who is interested in developing a purely theoretical understanding of Abhidhamma that is taken as a formal system there. But I cannot agree to their interpretation of "Hearing Dhamma" as it is inconsistent with those suttas that describe meditation, the practice of it, and the states, accomplishments, and insights experienced due to it. I do not like inconsistencies - but the arguments of the people at DSG are good and there is no break of logic when they argue how wrong it is to meditate and that only hearing Dhamma is correct. This is what lead me to look at their basic assumptions, and one of their assumption is the idea that "Hearing Dhamma" refers to simply listening to someone talking about it - the way one talks about physics or a book. But that is not what we see in the suttas. In the suttas "Hearing" always had a true, immediate, effect on the Hearer - obviously it is not the same when I read a sutta to someone as when the Buddha (or one of his Disciples) said it. Something is amiss.

In lack of a third option I choose to take the Mahayana version of "Hearing Dhamma" as the correct one. It agrees both with the suttas and with meditation. This is *my* choice - of course, I accept others choosing differently: those Mahayanans, some at DSG and those here. And I see no reason to discuss this further as it is not possible to prove basic assumptions one way or the other - that is why basic assumptions are also called axioms.

So let's leave it here, please.

A last note: you are right, the site does not say that there are *countless* Paccekabuddhas.

Freawaru

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tiltbillings
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Re: Mahamudra in Theravada?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:59 am


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Re: Hearing. was Re: Mahamudra in Theravada?

Postby Paññāsikhara » Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:16 pm

Did I hear somebody whispering "Masefield"?
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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tiltbillings
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Re: Hearing. was Re: Mahamudra in Theravada?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:22 pm


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LauraJ
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Re: Hearing. was Re: Mahamudra in Theravada?

Postby LauraJ » Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:30 am




Conquer the angry man by love. Conquer the ill-natured man by goodness. Conquer the miser with generosity. Conquer the liar with truth. -The Dhammapada

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Re: Hearing. was Re: Mahamudra in Theravada?

Postby Paññāsikhara » Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:14 am

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Re: Hearing. was Re: Mahamudra in Theravada?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:40 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Hearing. was Re: Mahamudra in Theravada?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Nov 25, 2009 5:17 am


Freawaru
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Re: Hearing. was Re: Mahamudra in Theravada?

Postby Freawaru » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:34 am


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Re: Hearing. was Re: Mahamudra in Theravada?

Postby Sanghamitta » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:46 am

In the sense that you are using it and if I have understood correctly I have never heard of such a transmission in the Theravada. There are those who see that as a positive of course.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.


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