What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Digity
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Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"

Post by Digity »

I think some people obsess about not-self stuff. It's also easy to get into some stupid ideas if you take the not-self too far. Follow the Buddha's teaching and I think the attachment to self will gradually fade away in a naturally and healthy way.
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Mkoll
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Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"

Post by Mkoll »

Anatta is often presented in the suttas as following impermanence and suffering.
"Rāhula, what do you think? Is the eye permanent or impermanent?"—"Impermanent, venerable sir."—"Is what is impermanent suffering or happiness?"—"Suffering, venerable sir."—"Is what is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change fit to be regarded thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’?"—"No, venerable sir."
"Rāhula, what do you think? Are forms … Is eye-consciousness … [279] … Is eye-contact … Is anything comprised within the feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness that arise with eye-contact as condition permanent or impermanent?"—"Impermanent, venerable sir."—"Is what is impermanent suffering or happiness?"—"Suffering, venerable sir."—"Is what is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change fit to be regarded thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’?"—"No, venerable sir."
-MN 147

It seems "one must have" wisdom of impermanence before "one can have" wisdom of non-self.

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
vajra1955
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Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"

Post by vajra1955 »

Hi,what is your experience of LIBERATION UNLEASHED?
practitioner
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Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"

Post by practitioner »

LU is dogmatic in imposing their concept. I pointed out to the owner That this can only lead to conscious awareness but it doesnt cause the subconscious mind to release the attachment to self. Every arising thought has a cause, but the primary condition is grasping of self. So thoughts still arise but the conscious mind merely says that is not from me. The underlying grasping is stil there.

Mind leads the brain, but brain takes time to change the neural network. This is why sotapanna takes few years to realize, not an instaneous change.

She starts to get egoic when I try to point her out on this. The anger and egoic statement reflect the fact that she hasnt lost her attachment to self. It is only a first step but hardly any where close to enlightenment. She still has thoughts, so the self is still there as a condition in the mind.
SarathW
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Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"

Post by SarathW »

Do you think the level of "no-self" or "not-self" realization is same as or similar to that of a sotapanna?
No.
There is a Sutta which clearly demonstrate that understanding first three fetters (even ten fetters) is not enough.
Understanding dependent origination and follow the Noble Eightfold Path is the way to enlightenment.

This is a very old thread but has raised an important question.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Exactly
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Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"

Post by Exactly »

This is why sotapanna takes few years to realize, not an instaneous change.
Not according to the Pali Canon. Can you post a sutta on witch you base this view upon ?
chownah
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Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"

Post by chownah »

SarathW wrote:
Do you think the level of "no-self" or "not-self" realization is same as or similar to that of a sotapanna?
No.
There is a Sutta which clearly demonstrate that understanding first three fetters (even ten fetters) is not enough.
Understanding dependent origination and follow the Noble Eightfold Path is the way to enlightenment.

This is a very old thread but has raised an important question.
The quote you bring talks about sotapana but you seem to be talking about enlightenment....so it seems that you are saying no to a strawman.
chownah
SarathW
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Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"

Post by SarathW »

The way I understand Sotapanna also an enlightened being.
:shrug:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
chownah
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Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"

Post by chownah »

SarathW wrote:The way I understand Sotapanna also an enlightened being.
:shrug:
The way I understand it arahants are enlighened.....sotapanna are still on the path.
chownah
davidbrainerd
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Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"

Post by davidbrainerd »

SamKR wrote:Hello everyone,

As a Buddhist, or even if you are not a Buddhist, what do you think of http://www.liberationunleashed.com?
Its a version of Vedanta:
their website wrote:Do you exist?

It is a strange question and it’s not something we normally ask. But what if the answer is no, there is no ‘you’. There is no separate self in the way it’s thought to exist. Would you have courage and curiosity to find out for yourself?
They're saying everyone is the same self.
davidbrainerd
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Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"

Post by davidbrainerd »

They're saying everyone is the same self. Which really seems to me to be all you can do as far as denying a self, i.e. either deny corporate self or deny individual self. You can try to deny both, but its pure nonsense. If there is no self at all in the whole universe then nothing would happen due to there being no actor. To deny individual self is AUTOMATICALLY to be teaching corporate self, and vice versa. Literal no self is not a real option. Its either corporate self or individual. And you see that here. A whole organization whose only doctrine is "no self" but they have to add the word 'separate' and say "no separate self" because no self ALWAYS devolves into corporate self at some point.
SarathW
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Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"

Post by SarathW »

Hi David
If there is an unchanging unit of a being or a consciousness (a self) then liberation as per Buddhism is not possible.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
SarathW
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Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"

Post by SarathW »

chownah wrote:
SarathW wrote:The way I understand Sotapanna also an enlightened being.
:shrug:
The way I understand it arahants are enlighened.....sotapanna are still on the path.
chownah
The way I understand Sotapanna is not fully enlightened (ie. Partly enlightened)
The best thing is to read the Sutta which address the matter raised in the OP.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
davidbrainerd
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Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"

Post by davidbrainerd »

SarathW wrote:Hi David
If there is an unchanging unit of a being or a consciousness (a self) then liberation as per Buddhism is not possible.
"Unchanging" is a strawman.
Javi
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Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"

Post by Javi »

davidbrainerd wrote:You can try to deny both, but its pure nonsense.
The Buddha denied both views. So according to you, the Buddha was speaking nonsense.

I swear dude, its like playing wack a mole with you. Out of one thread and into the other with your obsession with self.
Vayadhammā saṅkhārā appamādena sampādethā — All things decay and disappoint, it is through vigilance that you succeed — Mahāparinibbāna Sutta

Self-taught poverty is a help toward philosophy, for the things which philosophy attempts to teach by reasoning, poverty forces us to practice. — Diogenes of Sinope

I have seen all things that are done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a chase after wind — Ecclesiastes 1.14
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