giving someone alcohol - breach of sila?

[Stephen K]

As per the title. Business in alcoholic drinks is a breach of right livelihood, but what if someone asks me to fetch a beer from the fridge?

[Laurens]

Personally I wouldn't have thought so, you aren't making profit from it and anyway if you didn't they would just go get one for themselves and most likely be extremely irritated at your refusal

[Cittasanto]

why would you have beer in your fridge?

[Stephen K]

why would you have beer in your fridge?

It's not my fridge.

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

In the time of the Buddha a woman was married to a hunter. She used to fetch his weapons and traps every morning he went hunting. She prepared the meat he brought back for their meals. She was a Stream-winner. The Buddha said that she was blameless as she was simply obeying her husband.

So the question is are you under any social obligation to fetch the beer?

[Stephen K]

In the time of the Buddha a woman was married to a hunter. She used to fetch his weapons and traps every morning he went hunting. She prepared the meat he brought back for their meals. She was a Stream-winner. The Buddha said that she was blameless as she was simply obeying her husband.

So the question is are you under any social obligation to fetch the beer?

Hello Bhante.

Thanks for the story.

I don't fully understand your question though. What is meant by 'social obligation'? I can refuse to fetch the beer if I want to.

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

Well, if it was your father asking you to bring him a beer, then you have a social obligation to your father. To refuse his request would be a breach of sīla in itself.

[Stephen K]

Well, if it was your father asking you to bring him a beer, then you have a social obligation to your father. To refuse his request would be a breach of sīla in itself.

Oh I understand now. What if it's my mother's partner, not exactly my 'father'?

[Khalil Bodhi]

Bhante,

So is there no circumstance where disobeying one's parents is kusala kamma?

Mike

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

BSo is there no circumstance where disobeying one's parents is kusala kamma?

Yes, of course. If they ask for your help to commit suicide, or to kill someone else.

[Khalil Bodhi]

Bhante,

Thank you for your reply. I guess I don't understand how the differentiation is made. If your parents ask you to lie for them to the government and you refuse, is that akusala? If they ask you to steal? I just don't understand the difference and want to be clear about how to maintain pure sila especially since I'm going to be spending Thanksgiving in the company of my parents. Thank you.

Mike

[Ben]

Hi Mike
I always err on the side of caution with regards to sila. Sila is the foundation of the path and without sila there can be no sammasamadhi and no panna.
Don't break the sila yourself, don't encourage others to break their sila, and don't speak in praise of other people's sila-breaking behaviour.
kind regards

Ben

[Khalil Bodhi]

Hi Ben,

Excellent reply! Yes, I definitely agree but Venerable's reply to Stefan got me worried that even in doing my best I may be unintentionally committing akusala kamma. This is especially relevant as all of my family are drinkers and there's sure to be all manner of unskillful conduct afoot when we get together for the holidays this week. I'll just work on guarding my own sila as best as I know how. Metta.

Mike

[JeffR]

There are times when a choice must be made as to which action will be the least harmful.

[Khalil Bodhi]

Hi Jeff,

Precisely. I'm trying to figure out the best course of action to maintain my sila and protect others from their own akusala kamma as much as I can. Metta.

Mike

[acinteyyo]

Yes, I definitely agree but Venerable's reply to Stefan got me worried that even in doing my best I may be unintentionally committing akusala kamma.

Hi Mike,

you can not commit akusala kamma (unwholesome action) unintentionally.

Anguttara VI,vi,9
Cetanāham bhikkhave kammam vadāmi; cetayitvā kammam karoti kāyena vācāya manasā.
Action, monks, I say is intention; intending, one does action by body, by speech, by mind.

Action (kamma) is intention (cetanā). When there is no intention there is no kamma.

I'll just work on guarding my own sila as best as I know how

What else can you do? Don't worry, doing your best is enough.

best wishes, acinteyyo

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

you can not commit akusala kamma (unwholesome action) unintentionally.

I wonder if using the wrong word unintentionally is unwholesome kamma?

Presumably, Mike meant "unknowingly." In which case, one can easily commit unwholesome kamma — that is one may do something, believing it to be wholesome or at least blameless, while it is, in fact, unwholesome, e.g. mercy-killing, etc.

Some people are too scrupulous, and worry about nothing, but it is good to reflect on one's actions, before, during, and after doing them, to consider whether they were skilful or not.

We now come to the subject of vinaya kukkucca. Doubt may arise concerning certain matters relevant to the rules of discipline (vinaya). Sceptical doubt arises as to whether it is right or wrong, proper or improper, regarding one’s own actions, or the use of requisites. When such doubt occurs, it will not yet reach the stage of committing an offence. This kind of doubt is relevant to the rule of discipline. It is therefore regarded as an attribute that all monks should possess. Yet some monks pay no heed to any such doubt that might occur. In the absence of any such doubt or hesitation, they may give do a misdeed that amounts to contravening the rules of discipline. These monks will not have purity of mind or morality. Without reflecting on the propriety or impropriety of any such acts, they may do anything they like regardless of the rules of discipline laid down for monks.

[Khalil Bodhi]

Bhante,

That was exactly my concern. I would appreciate any advice you may have about further sharpening my discernment in regard to sila. Thank you again.

Mike

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

I cannot think of any better advice that the Ambalatthika Rāhulovāda Sutta

[Oleksandr]

I avoid giving alcohol, - just not to support intoxication of others.